Wadcutter C.O.A.L.'s

[Samas1]

I've been looking at loading .38spl wadcutter rounds as of late and noticed that my load data (for WC's) gives me a COAL with the WC bullet of 1.44" which seats the bullet only half way into the case. All the mfg and I see appears to keep the bullet seated flush to the case edge, or at best, revealing only about 1/16" of lead beyond the case. Is this because of a special case being used specifically for WC's or something else I'm clearly missing?
Any suggestions are always awesome.
Thank you.

 

[Ian]

Due to the taper of the case walls that most "standard" brass has, or due to cannelures, the load data you find may be taking case availability into consideration.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use load data generated with the longer seating depth to make ammunition with the bullet seated flush or with only the first driving band seated outside the case, as pressures will spike dangerously. 2.7 grains of Bullseye is a MAXIMUM load with the WC seated flush in WC brass and the crimp over the nose of the bullet. 2.9 grains BE is maximum with the first band of a typical 148-grain WC exposed. I have been alarmed many times by people putting 3.5 grains of BE in a .38 case and seating the bullet flush, this generates .357 Magnum pressure levels.

 

[RicinYakima]

Both Colt and S&W made semi-auto's for 38 Special. They require the bullet to be seated at the case mouth.

 

[CZ93X62]

Same story with the 32 WC guns by Walther, Pardini, et al.

 

[Samas1]

Ian, just wanted to make sure I'm reading your response properly. Are you implying that the load data from, say Hodgdon reloading takes into account the brass and is giving the proper recipe? So it should be seated at the halfway mark?
The current recipe leaves my bullet seated right between the two lube bands. It is a DEWC bullet, if thats a variable.


You second part is of course obivous, I would never flush-seat the bullet against the recipes' recommendations.

 

[Ian]

The problem is the recipes list an OAL for which the pressure tested data is valid, but reloaders sometimes don't consider this part of the equation and seat the bullet any old where they feel like it....including flush.

What I suggest at this point is invest in some real handloading manuals such as Lyman's 49th edition, Hornady's latest, or any used books you can find, and don't use the internet as your resource. Hodgdon's on-line information is missing a lot (such as bullet brand or mould number) and you end up with situations such as yours where you're not using EXACTLY the same bullet as the data was made with. The loading manuals have a lot of details that you need to help make these decisions better.

Your conundrum is a simple one and most of us here can easily tell you exactly what we would do and what powders and charge weights we've worked out, but without knowing more about you and your processes, the best recommendation is to point you in a direction you can get good solid recipes for yourself.

 

[fiver]

which is hard to do without knowing what bullet and weight your using for sure, and well, there isn't any data for many of the bullets out there.
so what's left.

most DEWC's have a spot for a crimp or at least a front drive band.
I start there at that drive band or crimp.
I get to the other end by looking and comparing the leftover case capacity to other recommended loads and bullets of the same basic shape and weight.

 

[Ian]

And realize when extrapolating powder volume versus charge weight that the relationships do not yield a linear pressure increase, but a logarithmic one.

 

[Bret4207]

I will heartily endorse the idea of getting paper manuals, especially some of the older ones. There is a lot of info in them that just isn't on line. I've seen people use HB WC loads with DEWC's and they always seat at the case mouth. Not a good idea!!

And we wonder why people talk about leading with bare neckked bullets as though it's a given...

 

[Charles Graff]

A few years back H.P. White labs conducted tests for the NRA concerning deep seating of wadcuter bullets in the 38 Special and the consquences in regard to the pressure. There were rumors floating around about revolvers being blown up by the standard 2.7/BE under a flush seated wadcutter. They found that a WC seated to normal depth (flush) over the standard 2.7 grains of Bullseye yielded 8,700 PSI. A double charge of 5.4 grains under the same bullets at the same seating depth yielded 32,300 PSI.

The take away from the study is that is would take a double charge (5.4 grains) and a deep seated bullet to raise presure to the point it would kaboom a good revolver.

I will try and upload the chart from the American Rifle magazine. The bottom line is 2.7/BE undera flush seated WC, is not anything near a max charge for the 38 Special (17,000 PSI). 3.5/BE is not a 357 Mag pressure load. The 3.5/BE pressures fall between the standard pressure and +P pressure loads and is entirely safe in any modern 38 Special revolver, rated for +P ammo.

 

[fiver]

correct for bulls-eye.
try it with titegroup and see what happens.
the way bulls-eye burns is more with a flattened curve of push, instead of a quick steep rise and fall most other powders have.

but even with that you can see that doubling the powder doesn't double the pressure it just about quadruples it.

 

[RicinYakima]

And, fiver, that is why we have to have reloading manuals. As you have said before, reloading is not for the careless. Placement on a burn rate chart is not even close to the whole story.

 

[Ian]

The pressures actually tested (by whatecer measuring equipment was employed) on that one test Charles referenced were considerably lower than those modeled by Quickload.....however I am certain I used actual internal volume of my military .38s which are less than wc brass by a wide margin. The takeaway here should be, as the OP was inquiring, that POWDER SPACE IS CRITICAL TO SAFETY. Even a 1/8" difference in depth can more than double the pressure.

 

[Charles Graff]

About thirty years ago, I stopped by a commericai reloader in San Antonio Texas, just to look around. The guy has a five gallon bucket of military 38 Special cases that gummed up his automatic machines. I bought the entire five gallons for $10.00. Being a thrifty sort, I load them with 3/BE under a 158 RN bullet (358311) and have no indication of high pressure, although the internal volume is less than commercial brass and most certainly will cause some increase in pressure. Anything above 3/BE goes in commercial brass. The brass I use is LC and WCC. The Federal and Remington contracts I trashed, as the proved unsatisfactory for reloading. Still I have beau coupe thousands. I am such a cheap sort!