Wanted a Rolling Block for Over 50 Years, and Now,...

L Ross

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of love for the .38-55 here. I never met a more frustrating, cantankerous cartridge/chambering/barrel combination in my life! So much so I gave up on them. A Hepburn, a Hi-Wall, and a Marlin Model 93. All would have benefitted from .382" bullets and none of them could chamber such a beast. Typically they topped out at .379".

One thing that half azzed worked was black powder and 1 in 30 alloy in the Hepburn. Never good enough for serious accuracy work though. Oh, breech seating worked splendidly in the two single shots but I wanted to hunt with them and that was impractical. Moved on.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I see a lot of love for the .38-55 here. I never met a more frustrating, cantankerous cartridge/chambering/barrel combination in my life! So much so I gave up on them. A Hepburn, a Hi-Wall, and a Marlin Model 93. All would have benefitted from .382" bullets and none of them could chamber such a beast. Typically they topped out at .379".

One thing that half azzed worked was black powder and 1 in 30 alloy in the Hepburn. Never good enough for serious accuracy work though. Oh, breech seating worked splendidly in the two single shots but I wanted to hunt with them and that was impractical. Moved on.

GOOD INTEL!!

I've read all the interesting little blurbs I could find over the years, and I have come to think that most who have shot an original much have much the same perspective.

I found the blurb on Starline's site very interesting as well, though I have to respect the author's hypothesis for the fact that I have no personal experience with which to compare - only anecdotal evidence, but it seems very consistent.

So, I wonder (have been wondering) just how stupid an idea it is to have a Contender chambered for 375W, but load and shoot 38-55 level loads. There seems to be some small amount of controversy as to whether the original Contender is an appropriate platform for the 375, but it HAD been chambered as such at the factory (I believe) and it' shouldn't be catastrophic if someone besides myself decided to shoot it that way some day.

I would absolutely insist on a .375" barrel too - from one end to the other. This would be NEW steel.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Despite the issues with the 38-55's non-SAAMI specs, historically it never seemed to have much problem in the bringing home the bacon, (or venison, bear, etc), area. Like the 38-40 and 44-40, the numbers ran all over, but that didn't seem to bother many people.

Times change.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
.....Times change.

From what I have gathered through my admittedly shallow research, what changed was smokeless powder - to be VERY general about the numerous little details involved. You can get away with a LOT (I think we all know this) when you kick a "soft" projectile in the butt with a quick, sharp THUMP and maintain "reasonable" expectations regarding leading, accuracy and speed.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
For sure. It went the other way too. The 30-30 was originally loaded by some companies with .307 jacketed bullets. I still have a box of Sierras so marked. And then back in the day I think it was Newton that had an idea out there that and oversized bullet was better, and that allegedly lead to the 303 Savage being loaded with a .311 bullet. I have never seen such a critter and the evidence is kinda shaky, but old magazines and book mention it enough to make me think there's something to it, or was for a little while anyway.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
For sure. It went the other way too. The 30-30 was originally loaded by some companies with .307 jacketed bullets. I still have a box of Sierras so marked. And then back in the day I think it was Newton that had an idea out there that and oversized bullet was better, and that allegedly lead to the 303 Savage being loaded with a .311 bullet. I have never seen such a critter and the evidence is kinda shaky, but old magazines and book mention it enough to make me think there's something to it, or was for a little while anyway.
My first very own "high-powered rifle" was a 30/30 and I loaded .307" jacketed bullets in it. I was a bit apprehensive when my dad drug them out of a cabinet and told me to use them, but he assure me it was fine.

I shot some of those up in an M77 308W in '82 and they shot just as well (which was VERY well) at a hundred yards as the .308" bullets I was using.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
For sure. It went the other way too. The 30-30 was originally loaded by some companies with .307 jacketed bullets. I still have a box of Sierras so marked. And then back in the day I think it was Newton that had an idea out there that and oversized bullet was better, and that allegedly lead to the 303 Savage being loaded with a .311 bullet. I have never seen such a critter and the evidence is kinda shaky, but old magazines and book mention it enough to make me think there's something to it, or was for a little while anyway.

Well Bret you got me thinking about a couple of boxes of 303 Remington UMC marked 195 grain. I’ve been wondering about the diameter myself so went up to the shop to see. Found one cartridge with a split neck so I pulled the bullet, it’s .311. There are a couple of reloads, different primers, with the same looking bullet but I haven’t pulled one of those down yet.
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Then a little newer box
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Well Bret you got me think about a couple of boxes of 303 Remington UMC marked 195 grain. I’ve been wondering about the diameter myself so went up to the shop to see. Found one cartridge with a split neck so I pulled the bullet, it’s .311. There are a couple of reloads, different primers, with the same looking bullet but I haven’t pulled one of those down yet.
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Then a little newer box
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WOW!!!!!! Thanks John!!! That's an amazing find! That "Old Wives Tale" has been in circulation for a good hundred years and yours is the first actual evidence I've seen that was more than anecdotal. I'd guess that ammo is pretty old as the Savage 99 was cataloged as the 1899 into the late teens or '20's IIIRC. Probably some cartridge collectors could date the box, I'm not up on that. I think that may be the old "cupro-nickle" jacketing that Col Whelen and St Elmer used to refer to.

Again, thanks! That's stunning!
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Rem-UMC is post 1912 when they merged. The "Dog-Bone" box is post 1927. IIRC

The original 30 WCF loading was 160 grain bullet at 1900 f/s from the carbine. The 303 Savage was a big step up in power with the 195 grain bullet at 1980 f/s from the 26" rifle.