Way off topic but this is incredibly sad...

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Pistolero

Well-Known Member

I have visited it a number of times. In the early 70s we heard a magnificent organ recital there, the organ
and the acoustics are just amazing.

Last visit, we took the tour up to the top out on the tower balconies, through parts of the ancient oak
roof beams.

I really hope that it was not arson. There are reports of arson fires in two other cathedrals in or near Paris in
the last week.

This is terrible, an architectural and religious landmark, with much art inside, too.

A sad day for France and humanity.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Such a magnificent building and a testament to what man can do. The first time we visited we were in awe. The second time it was even greater as we looked even deeper.

It was much more than just a Cathedral. In so many ways it IS the very heart of the nation.

A building can possibly be rebuilt but the history can never be replaced.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Our oldest grandson spent much time in Paris, last Summer, and toured Germany, Switzerland, and met up with my sister and her grandkids in Venice.

He said he didn't go inside the cathedral, only viewed it from the outside. He is away at college and was just interviewed by the town's local television station about his reaction.

Just as Americans remember the day Kennedy was assassinated and the Twin Towers falling, Frenchmen will remember this day.

Very sad, indeed.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Took 200 hundred years to build and was 600 years old. They said every inside wall and space was filled with ancient art and artifacts. Not only a loss to the French, not only a loss to Catholics, this was a profound loss of history to the world.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Haven't heard the verified reason for the fire but have heard lots of speculation that the remodeling work may be the cause.
 

Ian

Notorious member
My understanding is that most of the artifacts had already been removed to protect them during the renovation, so hopefully the damage will be limited to the structure. The pipe organ is one thing I don't know about, and am afraid was still in place due to being recently updated. The smoke damage to the masonry and carvings alone will be catastrophic.

My wife visited there on a college trip when we were dating, she was just showing me the pictures she took inside and out while there.
 

uncle jimbo

Well-Known Member
Took 200 hundred years to build and was 600 years old. They said every inside wall and space was filled with ancient art and artifacts. Not only a loss to the French, not only a loss to Catholics, this was a profound loss of history to the world.
I have to agree. "A profound loss of history to the world." couldn't have said it better.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
We have been spending time looking at photos and it makes us realize all the more just how significant a loss this is.
Centuries of history are gone.

This link has a few photos of the interior as it is now. Looks like much of the stone barrel vaults remain standing. The wooden roof and structure were above the barrel vaults down the side aisles and ambulatory.
There was carved and painted panels behind the quire down the sides of the altar which looks to be gone.
Seeing the wooden pulpit in still remaining means it didn’t get too hot in portions of the interior. I am sure the fire dept did all they could to save the interior.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member

I’m telling you guys, avoid women with all rat degrees who love art history and gothic architcture. Next thing you know you are sucked in.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
i'm okay looking at pictures and stuff.
I usually leave rats alone, and I'm not really up on their schooling.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Rat, art, close enough.

I really need to learn to proof read
 

Ian

Notorious member
My wife loves rats, too. Fancy hooded ones. And art, Gothic architecture, renaissance sculpture, you name it. This goes to show take nothing for granted, it might be gone tomorrow. Really glad I made a chance to see the French Quarter on Fat Tuesday before the hurricane, fly on a B-17, and will always regret that my aversion to anything "East coast" kept me from touring the WTC before it was gone.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Just as things exist in space they also exist in time. A road goes from start to finish in space, our experiences go from birth to death in time. It is often sad to come to the end of the road and the end of the time experience. Sorry, feeling very philosophical tonight.
 
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oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Never been to ND, or Paris. But, been in a lot of historic churches and buildings in Germany, and spent 2 weeks in Italy last year, and hit a LOT of museums/churches/VERY OLD historic sites. Wife and I were talking about this tonight. If even one room or main chamber in a lot of the places we saw were to be destroyed, it would be a tremendous loss that can never be replaced. On a hopeful note, I did see where all the bronze statues had been removed for the reno process, and they also managed to remove the artwork/etc. Hope so. AND HOPE it was NOT Terrorism/intentionally set!
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Just as things exist in space they also exist in time. A road goes from start to finish in space, our experiences go from birth to death in time. It is often sad to come to the end of the road and the end of the time experience. Sorry, feeling very philosophical tonight.
Very true.
I am quite pleased to know that in the chronological Venn diagram of life I had some overlap with more than a little historically significant architecture.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
It is really the pinicle of arch structures started by the Romans. Flying buttress were added as the foundation couldn't take the outward force on the walls. The buttresses were neat so many were built even though not needed.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
While much was destroyed, it looks like very much was also saved. The crown of thorns, which
has apparently been dated to the time of Christ was saved. Apparently the organ is mostly or
entirely intact, typically restored every 300 years. And the iconic twin towers of the main facade
are intact, that is where we were walking in our tour of the roof and balconies, up next to many
gargoyles.

Here are a couple from spring 2013, all the upper roof and spires in this view, are, I believe,
gone. The square main facade towers definitely still stand.
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This shows the brilliant engineering of the flying buttresses, carrying the spreading loads of the roof down to the
ground without thick, solid walls (lots of window letting in light) and without the buttresses blocking much of the
light in the interior. This is structurally how you can have extremely tall thin walls which can NOT take any substantial lateral loads
yet no internal columns. Brilliant work, building on the work of the Romans. Stone can basically take no tension, and they
needed to carry those roof loads tending to push the tops of the walls outwards to the ground safely, and relatively without
huge fortress walls 20 ft thick with tiny windows. These buttresses will likely have kept the walls from collapsing, my bet,
have not seen photos of this visage. Yes, the foundations couldn't take the overturning moment, but the walls could
not either.

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The crowds reported that the flames were orange at first then turned green. This was the copper roof sheeting
literally boiling and burning away, sad to say.

A real tragedy for history. I hope it was not arson but I fear that it was.

Bill
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I have been looking at photos take this morning of the exterior, overhead views and interior.

I am extremely surprised and pleased that it appears that the stone primary structure; walls,
flying buttresses and interior roof vaults are almost totally intact. One interior stone roof vault (of maybe 20-25, perhaps more)
has fallen, and there is also one hole, but I judge it "smallish" (may be 15 ft, but on that scale still small).
All or almost all the stained glass appears intact, the organ has apparently largely or completely
survived, it appears that a majority of the wooden pews are all intact and the interior, contrary to
many reports appear to be NOT at all "gutted", appear mostly undamage.

It looks like the exterior roof (I call it the 'weather cap') which was wooden beams with a roof sheath of copper
sheet has been essentially entirely burned, BUT the almost totally intact interior stone roof vaults kept these
burning beams from falling into the interior and lighting it off. It looks like almost all this huge bonfire was outside
(above) the real stone interior roof vaults. And both bell towers appear to be 100% intact, no scorching visible at all.

I am really amazed in a good way. The next critical business will be to get some sort of a temporary weather
cap over this to keep out the rain while they build the new permanent weather cap. One French expert says that there are
no trees in France large enough to remake the roof beams. I think this is perhaps a blessing. Rebuilding that secondary,
unseen (inside or out) structure of wooden beams would just be setting up a replay at some future date. Steel
would be fire resistant, lighter and last far longer. Make the exterior appearance to be identical, but no real need
to put back the fire hazard roof beams, it would seem.

But, they probably are not going to ask my opinion. :sigh:

Bill
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Terrorists was my first thought. The crew in question destroyed thousand year old structures, shrines, statues, libraries, documents, etc. A church would be right up their alley.
 
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