What is the right way?.....
- Thread starter waco
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fiver
Well-Known Member
tin, then antimony, then anything else, then the lead amount.
when I describe a 1/3 or a 4/6 alloy it is always in that order. [same as from a foundry]
when describing a tin only alloy, it is described as lead to tin.
20-1 is actually 20 pounds of lead to 1 pound of tin.
if I describe a mix or blend as 3-1, I mean 3 parts to 1 part, or 3 lbs to 1 lb.
when I describe a 1/3 or a 4/6 alloy it is always in that order. [same as from a foundry]
when describing a tin only alloy, it is described as lead to tin.
20-1 is actually 20 pounds of lead to 1 pound of tin.
if I describe a mix or blend as 3-1, I mean 3 parts to 1 part, or 3 lbs to 1 lb.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
A metallurgist would list: base metal (lead), next highest percentage(antimony or tin), second highest percentage (antimony, tin, copper, etc.)
This is different than ferrous based alloys, that use a system of specific chemicals in a specific order.
1 in 20 means "one part of a material in 20 parts total" twenty units of total weight
20 to 1 means "twenty parts of material with one part added" twenty one units of total weight
Lawrence Hard Ball is : 92/6/2. 92% lead, 6% antimony and 2%tin.
I know all of this doesn't make sense, but that is what they standardized on in the 1890's for lead based alloys for the newspaper industry.
Pewter came in three grades: fine 99% tin and 1% copper; trifle was 95% tin and 5% lead; lay was 85% tin and 15% lead. So they were written 99/1, 95/5 and 85/15. But you had to know the basic composition before hand.
This is different than ferrous based alloys, that use a system of specific chemicals in a specific order.
1 in 20 means "one part of a material in 20 parts total" twenty units of total weight
20 to 1 means "twenty parts of material with one part added" twenty one units of total weight
Lawrence Hard Ball is : 92/6/2. 92% lead, 6% antimony and 2%tin.
I know all of this doesn't make sense, but that is what they standardized on in the 1890's for lead based alloys for the newspaper industry.
Pewter came in three grades: fine 99% tin and 1% copper; trifle was 95% tin and 5% lead; lay was 85% tin and 15% lead. So they were written 99/1, 95/5 and 85/15. But you had to know the basic composition before hand.
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Ian
Notorious member
I always list bullet alloy the way Ric described, probably because I read a lot of that stuff and have an engineering background. Some of this stuff you pick up more or less subconsciously, like spelling numbers between one and ten, and 11 on up using the numerals, which is a classic journalist style as I've been told and I'm not sure where I picked that up other than a lot of reading.
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
It’s my understanding, for a cast bullet alloy, that Sb not exceed 6%, and Sn not exceed the amount of Sb. Is that correct?
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
It all depends upon what you are trying to do. Five percent of each antimony and tin are the most that dissolve and stay in solution when solidifying. This is the Lyman #2 alloy. It will normally expand on game animals with a solid hit. If you have more tin than antimony, then you have a much greater chance of "frosty" bullets, that many people don't like. I shoot either linotype (84/12/4) (lead, antimony, tin), or 1/2 and 1/2 monotype and 1990's WW's (78/16/6) thru my favorite Springfield match gun. Over the last 20 years I am finding that I have to seat the bullets out about .005" after every 1000 rounds. I am beginning to believe that it may be from antimony abrasion. Throat looks like it was polished with 1200 grit, just getting longer.
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Over the last 20 years I am finding that I have to seat the bullets out about .005" after every 1000 rounds. I am beginning to believe that it may be from antimony abrasion. Throat looks like it was polished with 1200 grit, just getting longer.
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Every thousand rounds? 20 years? Perhaps using ball powder? 2520 is pretty well known for eating throats and a bunch quicker than that.
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Oh no. Hercules 2400 until I couldn't find anymore then went to the new Alliant stuff. I started at 15.5 grains, but because of the powder change and longer seating I am up to 16.2 grains. All to keep MV about 1425 f/s.
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
Any reason you run those alloys Ric? After your last reply you have me scratching my head.
fiver
Well-Known Member
quite often a harder alloy will shoot more accurately even at slower velocity's.
the 4% tn and 6% antimony alloy I use now and then see's a lot of trips down the barrel at about 1850 fps with the rcbs 165 silhouette bullet.
I found that it tightened groups up considerably over ww or water dropped ww alloy.
it doesn't kill ground squirrels or rock chucks worth beans unless you head shoot them but you can surely hit them there with it.
the 4% tn and 6% antimony alloy I use now and then see's a lot of trips down the barrel at about 1850 fps with the rcbs 165 silhouette bullet.
I found that it tightened groups up considerably over ww or water dropped ww alloy.
it doesn't kill ground squirrels or rock chucks worth beans unless you head shoot them but you can surely hit them there with it.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The main reason I am old and don't have much of a right elbow left. So, I need about 500 perfect bullets for my Springfield match rifle each year. With linotype I can cast bullets that are 90%+ perfect visually and within 0.4 grains from my single cavity pre-WW1 #308284 mould. It is marked so that I can orient them in relationship to the case and then into the chamber. Bullets made from scrap and wheel weights are about 30% visually flawed and weight varies over a grain (sometimes over two grains) for a single casting session. I only have so much energy.
Now for plinking pistol and varminting and rock buffalo killing loads, it is WW's plus a half stick of 50/50 solder. Poured from a bottom pour pot in 4 cavity moulds. If the bullet has flats all the way around on the drive bands, I shoot it. When in doubt, add more heat.
Now for plinking pistol and varminting and rock buffalo killing loads, it is WW's plus a half stick of 50/50 solder. Poured from a bottom pour pot in 4 cavity moulds. If the bullet has flats all the way around on the drive bands, I shoot it. When in doubt, add more heat.
Much of your alloy selection should have to do with what the target is, on steel targets I use CWW +2% Sn. Many years ago I tried lino for shooting silhouette, that will never happen again but I gotta agree it sure does cast a purdy bullet. The CWW +2% Sn casts great, shoots great and doesn't disinegrate on steel targets. For stuff like HP's in the 45 1911 I use SWW +2% Sn, casts well and expands without blowing the nose off.
Nothing wrong with high Sb alloy if your target is paper, just not on steel or for hunting rounds.
Nothing wrong with high Sb alloy if your target is paper, just not on steel or for hunting rounds.
Kevin Stenberg
Well-Known Member
Common theme ^^^ An alloy is designated for target - hunting - steel plate - whatever. Do you mark ingots as to there use and keep them stored in that form and are used as the need arises? Or do you cast up however many bullets you think you need for the long term. And when they are gone cast to refill what you used.