When to Anneal

[Rick H]

In the case sizing question I got sidetracked and have a question about annealing brass. The only case forming I do is making 7x30Waters cases from 30/30 brass, yes it comes out a bit short but has been very usable in my Contender Carbine. I just size the brass and fireform using a starting load and the bullet tight to the rifling. My brass has been once fired WW 30/30 donated by clueless people at the range I frequent. I have lost very few cases during fireforming but do experience split necks after 4-5 firings...occasionally after 1 or 2. I purchased annealing gear and have started annealing, but after fireforming. (I don't have enough use of the annealed cases to see any change)
My question is:
When is the best time to anneal?

 

[Rick]

Cartridge Case Annealing - When, why, how and if to anneal

This article should answer many of your questions.

Splitting necks after 4-5 firings could well be the generous dimensions of a T/C chamber.

 

[S Mac]

I don't have the time to give that article the attention it deserves right now, looks like good information. My thoughts on your question about converting the 7x30 would be before the initial sizing.

 

[Rick H]

All right….after reading it looks like I am ok annealing after fire forming since that is not the trouble point. I haven't measured but my barrel chamber, it is from Bullberry 22" and has been a real shooter. My guess is time will tell. I hunt with the rifle and it gets full power jacketed loads....under 120 gr. Nosler's or 130 gr. Speers....some 2650 fps and 2550 respectively.

 

[waco]

For my precision long range stuff in 6.5 Creedmoor and .338 Lapua I have started annealing after every firing. This is to keep everything as close to the same as possible. I'll decap and clean the brass, anneal, neck size with bushing die, bump shoulder back with a body die, then load.

For run of the mill rifle stuff that is just hunting or plinking rounds, annealing after every three to four times would be just fine I would think.

 

[Rick H]

S Mac you said you were getting splits at the old shoulder? Mine have been vertical case neck splits. I haven't experienced the shoulder splits...... yet.

 

[waco]

After your brass has already been fire formed, Just make sure from there you always anneal before resizing your brass.

 

[popper]

30/30 neck is pretty thin anyway, you do one fire forming and 4 normal loads so I'd say 3 of the normal. As you got a fancy annealer, you need to batch your brass. Vs most of us that just pull some from the bucket and use it. Or get bored and just decide to do it. It is interesting that they split in an unusual place, I've never seen one the goes all the way to the mouth - where it is worked most, sizing and crimping. The shoulder needs to be annealed too, not just the neck. Unfired Mil stuff has annealing color left on it to verify it's done properly.

 

[S Mac]

Yes, my splits were around the circumference of the old shoulder. Not many cases but a few.

 

[blackthorn]

My experience with forming/fireforming is that if I am doing any aggressive forming/reforming, annealing before the initial processing results in a lot of collapsed cases! Now I process and then anneal.

 

[Intheshop]

Didn't read any responses cause,in a hurry but,will.

I got gifted 2 bxs of,probably early 70's(the box) 7X57,once fired brass.

Halfarsed looked at a cpl,then lubed it and ran it up into my,stupid cool/accurate 7-08,FL die....boom,usable case with,certain advantages. BUT, getting serious with it, I will be annealing 20 cases and then reforming. Part,of the reason is $$. I need to isolate a certain 7-08 mould and an too cheapchit to buy cases. Annealing = moving fwd.

 

[S Mac]

My experience with forming/fireforming is that if I am doing any aggressive forming/reforming, annealing before the initial processing results in a lot of collapsed cases! Now I process and then anneal.

Hadn't thought about that, makes sense. Maybe size, anneal and then fireform.

 

[fiver]

that's how I would do it^^^.

your re-working a case of unknown origin and age.
your not just kind of re-shaping it to your chamber you re-working all of the aligned molecules that have taken a set within the brass.

I'd do the work then soften everything, then put a hard [full pressure] firing on the case to fit your chamber and go from there.
then re-anneal about every 3 loads.

 

[Ian]

Often, a light draw in a pot of low-tin lead alloy is all that is needed for case longevity without making drastic changes to the temper of the brass. I've heard of using a small dipper furnace filled with fine sand works too.

 

[Intheshop]

Went back and read the responses and reasoning above..... along with some googlefoo time.

Not annealing,seems to be the consensus when forming cases. Which, I do....and don't,understand. On the "do",it's apparent/understandable that if the brass has been softened,it's gonna be that much easier to collapse the shoulder.

The "don't" understand is,well softer is better than harder..... it just can't be,too soft. So there must be some calculation to time/temp and needs to be pretty durn accurate to the degree of softness.... my little drill motor,counting to _ probably isn't gonna cut it.

I'm gonna bail on reforming the 7X57 into 7-08. The mould,and project has too much going for it....in initial tests...to not spend the cake$ and go snag some cases.

 

[popper]

I just hold the case head in my fingers, rotate it and wait for the color change at the shoulder, toss into water to cool. I'd think 7-08 from 308 would be the easiest, then neck turn. Dipping in lead pot is a PITA, Sand or I forget the salt does a good job but then you do need a timer. You don't want really soft, just when the color kinda 'silvers'. Got so much LC-308 brass I don't bother anymore. Looks nasty, pitch it.

 

[Ian]

Nitre salts.