I can't get wrinkles out of Lee 6 cav. 160 gn micro band bullets and Lee 6 cav. 40 S&W bullets. Have cleaned the beeJesus out of mold, added some tin, taken lead temp to a little over 800. Oh yeah, alloy is just WWs. Added some tin and same result. Tried with 45 mold that puts out perfect bullets with range scrap and also has wrinkles. Also the 40 S&W puts out perfect bullets with range scrap. I am new to casting so am scratching my head on this one. Am kinda leaning toward lead problem. I have seen pics of lead with zinc in it and it doesn't look like that. Any ideas appreciated.
Why can't I get the wrinkles out of my bullets?
- Thread starter Foo
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Like Rick said, mold temp. Try to pick up the tempo of your casting pace. Don't worry about what they look like. While you're standing there looking at the wrinkled bullets the mould is cooling off. Fill and dump and repeat as fast as you safely can and eventually you should get to the point where the sprue is starting to take relatively long time (maybe 4-5-6 seconds) to flash over and harden. Thats what you're looking for. That's when the mould is hot and you can slow down some. You need to find a pace that make the mould happy heatwise. Moulds are fickle and I'm pretty sure they're female. They want what they want and that varies. The wrinkles are from the mould not getting really warmed up- PROBABLY. I'll even say almost certainly. Pot heat has very little to do with mould heat. You can run the pot at 1000F but if you're emptying the mould before the heat can sink in and spending time looking at the ugly little silver raisins you just dropped out of the mould, stressing over why they are nasty looking instead of refilling the mould instead of refilling the mould like you be...you'll be stuck with wrinkled little rejects. Just watch it when it does warm up and the sprue starts taking longer to flash and harden- you don't want to open the mould while the bullet is still molten inside. That will likely result in lead smears on the sprueplate or mould faces. It's a balancing act and while it may sound tricky and difficult, it really isn't. It just take a little patience and experimentation.
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Matt
Active Member
I know that some doubt the value but Lee recommends several things; clean the mold, lubricate the sprue plate screw, lubricate the locating pins/bars, smoke the cavities, and preheat the mold.
Nothing cleans a mold like a can of brake cleaner spray and a few cotton swabs. Without seeing the bullets it’s hard to tell what the wrinkles may be caused by. But the best degreaser has always been brake cleaner. They are totally degreased! Iron molds can start showing speckles of rust in hours in humid conditions.
On all my aluminum molds I use the nickel (silver colored) based anti sieze to lubricate the sprue plate screw and locating pins. A little goes a long way and it does not migrate like beeswax or bullet lube into the cavities. . Never use copper based anti sieze on aluminum.
I smoke my aluminum mold cavities with wooden matches before every session. It’s made recalcitrant molds (aluminum or not) behave more than once and can do no harm, takes little time, and is cheap.
I preheat all molds on a hot plate aluminum or not. It tends to limit a bunch of bad casts. Lee recommends dipping their molds in the melted alloy to pre-heat. Both methods work. I’ve never found it a problem to keep Lee molds hot enough, always the opposite; single, double, or six cavity. Another key is to keep the sprue plate lightly lubed with 2 stroke oil. Lead smeared on the top of the blocks or bottom of sprue plate seems to change venting between the plate and blocks that can cause wrinkles too.
Bad alloy? I’ve so far found it impossible to alloy zinc into my lead. It always floats and gets skimmed off. In 50 years I’ve probably encountered about a hundred pounds of foundary alloy; I’ve kept a new bar of Linotype as a curiosity for 40 years. Everything else has been scrap from who knows where. Boat keels, stock car weights, pipe, cable sheathing, old Babbitt bearings from rail cars, lead from torn down green house windows,range scrap, reclaimed shot, and of course wheel weights. It all cast good bullets, occasionally needing some tin, but otherwise it worked well.
I’m guessing the issue is mold prep from your description, but I’ve be spectacularly wrong before
Nothing cleans a mold like a can of brake cleaner spray and a few cotton swabs. Without seeing the bullets it’s hard to tell what the wrinkles may be caused by. But the best degreaser has always been brake cleaner. They are totally degreased! Iron molds can start showing speckles of rust in hours in humid conditions.
On all my aluminum molds I use the nickel (silver colored) based anti sieze to lubricate the sprue plate screw and locating pins. A little goes a long way and it does not migrate like beeswax or bullet lube into the cavities. . Never use copper based anti sieze on aluminum.
I smoke my aluminum mold cavities with wooden matches before every session. It’s made recalcitrant molds (aluminum or not) behave more than once and can do no harm, takes little time, and is cheap.
I preheat all molds on a hot plate aluminum or not. It tends to limit a bunch of bad casts. Lee recommends dipping their molds in the melted alloy to pre-heat. Both methods work. I’ve never found it a problem to keep Lee molds hot enough, always the opposite; single, double, or six cavity. Another key is to keep the sprue plate lightly lubed with 2 stroke oil. Lead smeared on the top of the blocks or bottom of sprue plate seems to change venting between the plate and blocks that can cause wrinkles too.
Bad alloy? I’ve so far found it impossible to alloy zinc into my lead. It always floats and gets skimmed off. In 50 years I’ve probably encountered about a hundred pounds of foundary alloy; I’ve kept a new bar of Linotype as a curiosity for 40 years. Everything else has been scrap from who knows where. Boat keels, stock car weights, pipe, cable sheathing, old Babbitt bearings from rail cars, lead from torn down green house windows,range scrap, reclaimed shot, and of course wheel weights. It all cast good bullets, occasionally needing some tin, but otherwise it worked well.
I’m guessing the issue is mold prep from your description, but I’ve be spectacularly wrong before
45 and .40 both put out great with range scrap. Problem lead is Wheel weights and now ww with some tin added.
mold pre heated on hot plate but maybe getting cooled off not casting fast enough.
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Mold lubed with anti sieze at proper places. cleaned with acetone/toothbrush , also used acetone brake cleaner. Don't think zinc is problem as it was skimmed off in whole pieces making ingots.
OK, guys, after reading all this advice from you pros I have decided to go down the cold mold hole and experiment with that idea. The sprue does flash over on pistol mold very quickly , maybe 1-3 sec. Rifle mold is some slower. I will make sure mold is hot enough and speed up pour. It is set sort of slow at the moment. I notice the quicker it comes out of furnace, the hotter the mold stays. Thanks again everyone for the ideas and will report back who was the top troubleshooter if I get it figured out. Hopefully I can get out there Sunday. Looking forward to trying some of those rifle bullets out of the AK and SKS and I think my Jungle Enfield has small enough bore to use it also. Gotta "Git er done" cuz it is getting warm enough to spend a afternoon at the range.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Different alloys do different things in the same mould. One alloy may vent air much better than another. One may have more surface tension or whatever the tech guys call it. You have to play around and see what the mould wants. Microband bullets can be a bugger IME. I've never found putting anything but clean, hot alloy in the cavities to help. I have had to resort to scrubbing the cavities with an old fashioned pencil shaped eraser in some moulds in the past. Also, how many cycles of heating and cooling (casting sessions) has this mould gone through? Some of my Lees took several sessions to straighten up and fly right. It's as though there's crap in the pores of the metal that just has to cook out.
Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
One of the weak points on the Lee 6 cav molds it the sprue cutter cam lever. If you are having to put a lot of pressure on the lever, you are allowing the mold to cool too long. If you are casting in a breeze, either outside or close to the exhaust fan, that cools the alloy on the way to the mold. I probably just missed it, but ladle pouring can also introduce a lot of cooling before the alloy gets into the cavity. If bottom pouring, then it does need a small space between the nozzle and the sprue plate to allow easy venting of the mold. When I use the bottom pour pot, I move the mold open the valve, shut the valve, move the mold and stop at each cavity and form one continuous sprue. It looks sort of like a arc weld bead. That seems to work better than just opening the valve and pulling the mold under the flowing stream, at least for me. Some molds like pressure feeding with the plate directly against the nozzle, so try that as well if you have poor fill out. If you are not moving along filling the cavities, it is a long time from pour to cut with the six cavity molds. And you have not mentioned how long your run the mold before stopping. If you take time to examine your product, you are part of the issue. If you have a 10 pound pot, and do not run at least half the pot, you are not going long enough to really get a pace for a consistent product.
Dimner
Named Man
The best way to figure this out it to keep making the bad bullets, but pay attention to when they are no longer bad bullets. The process is boring, but you will get your answers.
As others have said it's either mold temp or oil/mold lube. But my money is on oil/lube. When I cast and the mold temp is lower that acceptable I usually get less filled out details in the bullet. Wrinkles are mostly a lube/oil problem. I cast almost exclusively with CWW no tin added unless it's tiny 22 cal bullets.
Preheat your mold on a hot plate or the edge of your pot for 15 minutes. Then start casting quickly. Put your bullets in separate piles. Your goal here is to get to the point where your mold is too hot
One for the first 25 pours
Another for 26-50
Another for 51-100
up to 200 pours. Thats an extreme amount of pours, but i cant think of a single reason anyone would get wrinkles at the 200th consecutive pour if you are casting very quick.
Put the mold down and look at your piles. Note when the wrinkles dissappear. Also note if and when you start getting cratered bases. That means the mold is too hot.
If It is a lube/oil issue if you get good bullets after 25 -35 pours AND your 2nd session (do not relube) starts with good bullets afyer a few pours. (again reheating the mold).
If you have craters AND wrinkles it's gotta be a lube/oil issue.
As others have said it's either mold temp or oil/mold lube. But my money is on oil/lube. When I cast and the mold temp is lower that acceptable I usually get less filled out details in the bullet. Wrinkles are mostly a lube/oil problem. I cast almost exclusively with CWW no tin added unless it's tiny 22 cal bullets.
Preheat your mold on a hot plate or the edge of your pot for 15 minutes. Then start casting quickly. Put your bullets in separate piles. Your goal here is to get to the point where your mold is too hot
One for the first 25 pours
Another for 26-50
Another for 51-100
up to 200 pours. Thats an extreme amount of pours, but i cant think of a single reason anyone would get wrinkles at the 200th consecutive pour if you are casting very quick.
Put the mold down and look at your piles. Note when the wrinkles dissappear. Also note if and when you start getting cratered bases. That means the mold is too hot.
If It is a lube/oil issue if you get good bullets after 25 -35 pours AND your 2nd session (do not relube) starts with good bullets afyer a few pours. (again reheating the mold).
If you have craters AND wrinkles it's gotta be a lube/oil issue.
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Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
My experience is a little different. When I find craters or torn sprue holes in the base of the bullet, it is because I cut the sprue a little too early. Before the Base of the bullet has hardened enough. This results in the torn cavity instead of a clean cut on the base of the bullet. While it might be that the mold is over heated, it also could be that in your effort to "pick up the pace" you are just cutting the sprue a little too soon.
Dimner
Named Man
Totally agree dusty. That's how I see it too in normal casting.
However, the testing process I laid out would not be one that someone would use in normal casting. It's just a process to trouble shoot for defects.
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I don't like the sprue cut nice and clean. If they are then the gas checks don't seat well. I try for the tear outs to as small as possible. Pistol blasting stuff I don't care. Rifle stuff is where I get picky.
I usually wait till you see the lead flash over then count to 3 after that then cut the sprue.
I usually wait till you see the lead flash over then count to 3 after that then cut the sprue.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I would choose the simplest Idea! Mold it too cold...use a hot plate to bring it closer to range. I use #2 setting on my hotplate and set it on the hot plate when you turn on you lead pot!
Of couse oil can do this to...Is your mould degreased? Only use a tad of sprewplate lube in the top surfaces staying clear of the mould holes and only a tad on the pins!
My bet is if it is a 6 cavity the mouldis not hot enough!
Of couse oil can do this to...Is your mould degreased? Only use a tad of sprewplate lube in the top surfaces staying clear of the mould holes and only a tad on the pins!
My bet is if it is a 6 cavity the mouldis not hot enough!