Your chance to talk me into a 45 rifle !

RBHarter

West Central AR
A high cost to return project washed out ......
A barrel change became 3x the value of the carbine .......so no matter how cool it would have been it's what it is .....

Moving along I have 2 1.20 dia , 24" , 1-16" , .451 barrel blanks .

45 junkies want for Siamese Mausers ..... Alexander Arms does a rebated rim rendition of the 45-70 in what amounts to a 284 Win blown straight .

There's the 45 Raptor which is basically a rimless 460 S&W in a blown straight 308 case , have one in a 16" barrel . Not a lot of fun to shoot at it's upper limits but with 250s held to 45 kpsi it's a real romper stomper .
In that vein if I took it out to 06' basic 45-70 data except full tilt Ruger #1 should be safe with the case .4 longer should make up for the .03 taper to the head for case space .

I'm not opposed to something more modern but I have brass and suitable dies for the above . The 450 BM or 458 thing would work too .

I have donors in 223 , .473 rims , and I don't have an aversion to buying a used up WSM Savage . And doing a 45-70+ on a WSM case although I wonder how long the dies would last sizing that head .005 .

Of course the folley in the 45 rifles at .458 is the .451 groove . Not a big deal here but in 20 years it might be a problem .
If I stay rimless feeding should be easy .
There's the belted mag option but the .451 hangs up there with the possible exception of the 458 American finished with a 450 Marlin . 2.1 case length gives a pressure drop jump should it get a .458 jacketed in it and the Marlin with it's tall belt won't chamber .

So I'm open to suggestions .
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
.451 would generally be a pistol, rifles are generally .457

That said, a 45 is never a bad choice.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
The barrels were for a 45 Colts rebarrel to add 4" , fix a sloppy camber , and the 1-32 twist .

How cool would a steel 760 in 45 Raptor be ? They came in 06' , 270 , and 35 Whelen ...... Probably all the hassles of the lever action .....
 

Michael

Active Member. Uh/What
45 Win Mag, now how cool would that be in a rifle. Stronger case than the 45 colt, enough umph to know that you are shooting something without the snot loosening recoil of a BM, and no break required. Just think about all of the different cast bullet options you could try out. Starline even makes brass for it.

Or ... IIRC there might be an older classic British round that has a .451 bore, the .500/.450 No. 2 Musket comes to mind.
 
Last edited:

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
What about a Ruger American 450 Bushmaster?

Love mine!! Shoots 45 pistol bullets as well as sized down 400+ cast.

Also its longer magazine ( & strong action) allows nicely improved ballistics
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
I agree wit a Ruger 450 Bushy....
We ave the AR version and the are fun ! The Bolt version would be 2x the FUN !
But why not just get a good used 45-70 levergun. The jap Winchester light weights as tank strong and easy to carry all day. We have one !
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I have 2 .451 blanks @24" with Savage and Mauser actions available .
I think my regionally local enabler can thread and contoure 1 or both for less than I can buy something else .

I already have an 1895G . I see the 450 BM uses the 284 parent brass so that means magazine work . If I keep the other .3 it's a rimless 45-70 with a .451 groove . The 110LH will take a 3.9 OAL . Gotta buy a bolt and Magazine for the Axis as it's a center feed 223 .

If the Arisakas don't come around which the 6.5 is I have those .

Fun fact .
Although the 460 S&W is rated at 62kpsi the vast majority of load data is under 48kpsi . The instructions for the 45 Raptor say use 460 S&W data directly , it lists in Wiki a 395 gr HC Cor-Bon and a 360 gr LLFN Buffalo Bore at almost 45-70 Trapdoor levels from an 8-3/4" barrel .

I was leaning towards the 460/45 Raptor . I can get all sorts of bullets in it with even a short action as I'll have an inch outside the case in even a 308 magazine .
The appeal of a 458 WSM is still there ..... .505 head to a .500 shoulder with a neck of .480 , 2.10 case 2.800 OAL it's a rimless 45-70 .......... Didn't they do that in a 400 Whelen .....
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
.451 would generally be a pistol, rifles are generally .457

That said, a 45 is never a bad choice.
Not for a 450 Bushmaster. I would say get a 450 BM but I don’t like the small primer pocket in it. I could be all wet on this but I think it is more limited to faster powders because of this. Yeah I have one but 99% of the loads I shoot are cast bullets with pistol powder. My lilgun jacketed bullet loads I get slight hang fires and think they would get worse with slower powders.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I loaded the lilgun loads with srm primers and still got hang fires. I’m wondering if it would help to either add more powder or poly fill to make it a somewhat compressed load
 

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
My Siamese is still 8mm and I load for it. Would hate to see it bored out.

My answer is . . . TRAPDOOR!!

I LOVE MY '84 Trapdoor and I load BP in .45-70 for it.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I loaded the lilgun loads with srm primers and still got hang fires. I’m wondering if it would help to either add more powder or poly fill to make it a somewhat compressed load
I dont use lilgun.

H110, 296 & #9 have all done this in the M$R. 300MP under a Barnes 260hp @ 2350 dosent!!!??
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
lmao! For ghits and shrins, I would screw one on a Rolling Block receiver and figure out a chamber (rimless!) and have something that NO ONE ELSE could even imagine!
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I can't help you in your decision, but I owned a Siamese Mauser 45-70. I think it was a Navy Arms. Sold it. Boy was that DUMB!!! I now have a #1 SMLE in 45-70. It's not the gun the Mauser was.
 

StrawHat

Well-Known Member
I had a Siamese Mauser converted to 45-70. Sold/traded it away, don’t remember why or what was gained. Had another Siamese action. Sent it to E R Shaw and converted it to 45-70 also. Bought stock, sights, etc. Life came along and that project never got finished, hardly got beyond the planning stage. Wish I had them convert it to 405 WCF.

The idea of a .451 barrel in any sort of a common 45 rifle chambering scares me a little. Not something I would care to do. Same barrel in a pistol cartridge sounds like fun but the Mauser action is overkill.

Maybe trade your barrels for some more appropriate?

Kevin
 
Last edited:

RBHarter

West Central AR
I have a couple of Savage 06' barrels , a 257 Roberts LR 98 barrel , a 270 pre 64 M70 barrel , a push feed 243 M70 barrel , I think a M700 06' also .

The .451 barrels are unturned blanks . Not worth much as is and pretty readily available . I have an Axis donor action , get a .473 bolt head to replace the 223 and turn a heavy profile barrel . I have the basics of chassis meets AR for a straight case from 06' that will do everything a Siamese Mauser does in a 451-70 with a 16" twist 2500 fps MV with a 185 SWC and 600 gr subs . Imagine a triple or maybe quad ball .454 load :) .

With the last 8" in a straight .750 profile I can use all of the MSR gas block/sight assy . Add a rail for optics on the receiver with a flip up buried under the scope and it's close to the ultimate pack in gun . Since it's for a guy that hasn't bought a commercial bullet in 7-8 years .....
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Except for the Government calibers like 45-70, original Sharps 45 caliber rifles were .451.