Your Go-To Powder(s) For Your 32-20 Lever Gun

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
I understand completely that it depends on the bullet and that every gun is an individual. But, as I mentioned in another thread, Mrs. smokeywolf just 'ordered' me to restore and refresh my stock of powder, primers and lead :D. Yep! She's an angel.

My go-to powder for the model 53 Winchester is IMR 4227. Also use that in a couple of other cartridges.
Might be a good time for me to try something new.
 
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L Ross

Well-Known Member
I'm just about giddy. Another Model 25 Remington will soon arrive. This one in .32-20. A big ol' box is coming from Starline too!
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
4227 is good in a rifle as was 2400 and I believe Lil' gun was also in the running some time back when I last loaded for it. Blue Dot and SR 4759 were real good IIRC. That was all with the 311316.

In a revolver Unique rules for hunting, BE for target.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My Browning 53 likes SR4759 for accuracy, but you give up 250 f/s. Lil'Gun is fast, but accuracy was only mediocre. H4227 and A2400 gives me a better combination of velocity and accuracy. Heavier bullets seem to like 4227 and lighter ones 2400. FWIW.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
With no more to go on than "one rifle and a couple of others" it's not possible to start recommending powders. Powder selection will depend entirely on cartridge, bullet, firearm and what you are trying to load for and accomplish at the moment. I would recommend buying for what you definitely plan on loading first and see what the future brings for other needs. Cans of powder are like bunnies, before ya know it you'll have shelves full of different powders.

The lead is easy enough if your going to buy foundry metal from Roto Metals, they offer a wide variety including pure, tin and Super Hard. With those three you can make up just about any alloy you choose.

With only a few varieties primers are plenty easy to stock up on.
 

david s

Well-Known Member
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Blued is a Single Six 32 H&R magnum and the stainless a 327 Federal magnum Blackhawk. Not a world of difference but for a 32 caliber the Single Six makes more sense, at least to me. Well I manage to post this in the wrong section, grand.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
2400 has done most of my high-velocity rifle work in 32/20 WCF, which is mostly via Lyman #311316. I have #311419 on hand, but that little lubricant going 2200 FPS for 20" of barrel seems like it would turn to mud in mid-bore, so I haven't tried that (yet). "316" at 1800 FPS makes lasting-enough impressions on coyotes and jackrabbits, so not much motive to explore in great depth. AA-1680 is interesting in 22 Hornet and 25/20 WCF with gas-checked castings.......it might get a test-drive in 32/20 at some point.

The late Ken Waters recommended SR-4756 at 6.0 grains as his Pet Load for 32/20 in revolvers. I back that off to 5.5 grains in the Colt Police Positive Specials so chambered, and go Full Monty (6.0 grains) in the Colt Bisley, Colt Army Special, and S&W M&P. The usual bullet is a 118 grain flatnose plain base of my own design on the Mountain Molds software. With SR-4756 out of print, I have tried Herco at 4756 weights less 10%, and it performs about as well.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the responses.

L Ross, sure would like to see a pic of that new Remington when it comes in and you have the time and inclination.

Sure wish I'd been in a position to stock up on 4759 before it was eliminated. Such is life.

Rick, wasn't really looking for recommendations. Just wanted to hear what others are using or fond of. Maybe broaden my knowledge.
I am giving serious thought to buying a pallet of pure Pb from Rotometals.

david s, nice looking pistols and nice photography.

Allen, I'll have to find my Ken Waters Pet Loads book. In one of the boxes in the basement garage.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
My Marlin 32-20 shoots so well with a 120 plain base and 5 gr of Unique that I don’t use anything else.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'll echo Al's recommendation of Pet Loads for good info. Mr Waters did a LOT of very, very good work.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
My Marlin 32-20 shoots so well with a 120 plain base and 5 gr of Unique that I don’t use anything else.
5.0 grains of Unique is a close parallel to that 5.5 grains of Herco that is doing decent work in the 32/20 wheelguns, which is very close to the Waters Pet Load of 6.0 x SR-4756. If your results with the Marlin are like mine, the 4756 load gives about 1200-1225 FPS in my 20" 94CCL and 900-925 in 5" revolvers. It is a very pleasant load in a rifle, and doesn't shred small critters like the same-weight bullets do when launched at 1800 FPS. I think we are saying the same thing in the languages of differing powders.

And now for a bit more swamp gas concerning the 32/20 WCF in both rifles and wheelguns. Some of you may be familiar with the work done a few years back by the late John Kort (AKA "W30WCF") concerning a smokeless substitute for black powder in the 44/40 WCF using the old Lyman #427098 as its slug for cowboy match shooting. #427098 (and #401043 and #311008) all lack a dedicated crimp groove, and their usual anchoring got done with a roll crimp around the bullet's ogive origin. That works fine in revolvers, but can fall short in a levergun's tubular magazine. If the bullet base is not supported by a firm powder column beneath it, the bullet is prone to "telescope" back inside the case as it shunts its way toward the cartridge lifter and the rifle's chamber. Most smokeless powder loads meant for Colt SA and Win '73 rifles take up a small portion of the cavernous 44/40 case's internal volume. What to do?

My route to success in 44/40 WCF involved use of the SAECO #446 flatnose plainbase of about 200 grains in heft, which has a nice crimp groove that enables a cartridge OAL that meshes with my old '73 Winchester's lifter and with the Pasta Colta SA's chamber lengths. Life is good, IOW.

John K had other ideas. He liked that OEM bullet #427098, the same way 1911A1 addicts like Lyman #452374. He messed around with high-bulk rifle fuels a bit, and came up with RL-7 as his answer to the powder column height/pressure yield 'ideal' in the 44/40. Depending upon cases used, that meant 24.0-25.0 grains. I tried this mode CAUTIOUSLY, a friend with a Win 92 clone from South America ("El Tigre"??) ran them without issues, the brass showed evidence of soft pressures and velocities were in the 1150-1175 ballpark--just like John K and his buddies had experienced. OK! I ran some through my '73 carbine and the Uberti, and the loads behaved themselves well in both arms. In the revolver, there were a few 'zombie' unburned powder granules, but in the rifle tube the grittiness did not show up. Fair enough, it works--and solves the problem of bullet telescoping in #427098-loaded smokeless cartridges in the Win '73 and Colt SA without stressing the mechanisms.

Not one to leave well-enough alone, I scrounged a couple hundred #311008 to try in my 32/20 arms. Half of the 44/40's RL-7 load (25.0 grains) is 12.5 grains, so I tried that powder weight in Starline 32/20 brass......and it was a bit too much of a good thing. I recalled that IME 25.0 grains in W-W and R-P 44/40 cases gave a slight amount of compression to the powder column of RL-7, but to get the same column height in Starline brass required a grain less fuel. I cut the powder weight back to 12.0 grains and got a snug slight column compression. NICE.

To the desert I went with the ammo--Marlin 94CCL--Colt Bisley--and S&W M&P. Long story made short--the velocities in the 20" Marlin ran in the 1100-1125 FPS realm, the Colt SA got a bit over 800 and the S&W ran about 30 FPS faster on average. SDs were small, which is NOT USUALLY a feature of smokeless loads in 32/20 arms. Accuracy was decent, but not the best seen from any of the arms. Close, though. Call it "Acceptable". Primers were Rem #6-1/2 small rifle, which seem to equate to small pistol magnum brisance. Remington ad copy says they are optimized for cases of this size. Groups shrunk across the board when I started using them in 25/20 and 32/20 rifle apps.

The down sides--in revolvers, this powder is pretty slow-for-application (Well, DUHHH......). It leaves some grit in its wake. The Colt SA system can work around that quite well. The swing-out S&W could NOT. Grit got under the extractor star, even though I took pains to make sure the muzzle was straight up when I thumbed down the extractor rod. For sport shooting, not a real issue--in a defensive scenario, NO BUENO.

Powder cost is another factor--assuming that a pound of RL-7, 2400, Herco, and Unique are priced close to one another, using twice the powder weight per charge can start getting spendy. My view--unless you absolutely MUST USE bullets without a crimp groove, the RL-7 Answer may not be your best route.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I'm getting to where I load with fewer and fewer powders due to specific needs which may not require the intuitive propellants. Not to make this a "if you could have only X number of powders" thread, but some things to consider if bulking up:

Titegroup does everything from Bullseye to Green Dot only better and more cheaply. Unique is excellent but doesn't get used much by me anymore, Universal is my bulk powder for powder-coated 45ACP 230TC bullets because it will cycle my AR, be quite accurate, and also function perfectly in all my pistols and revolvers, but that's a niche use. Titegroup is virtually position insensitive and works very well at low pressure, so is great for cast in old calibers and is indispensable for my 230-grain subsonic .308 loads.

True Blue covers a lot of bases well, even outside its comfort zone. I don't use a lot of it but I keep a lot of it and can load any pistol caliber at any pressure to good effect in a pinch, it's sort of a fallback propellant. For 80-90% loads with plain based cast, it is simply excellent in all the straight-wall "magnum" revolver cartridges. So far nothing has been better in the .40SW than TB, though HS-6 is close.

RX-7 is another that works surprisingly well way past either end of its spectrum. That stuff is magical. I use it under mega-heavy bullets in standard .45 Colt loads, for subsonic 300 BLK AR loads, and more recently for my short, suppressed .308s. In fact ALL my .308s, and not for 1600 fps loads either, I take it to 2550 fps in the 22" rifles with 174-grain bullets. I use it for almost all my .30-30 loads and my 200-grain .35 Rem loads, not to mention .223 and a few others.

IMR 3031 is another really tough to beat powder. It has a far more gradual pressure rise....and fall....than anything anywhere near its burn class and is simply superb in any medium-sized .30-caliber case.

There are others, I use 2400 for a thing or two, Longshot is the ONLY powder that balances my 500-grain sub loads in my .458 Socom and it also gets used for revolver shot loads, Unique gets used for nostalgia's sake occasionally, and Bullseye is still valid for standard .45 Colt and ACP loads with medium to light bullets, though Titegroup does mo' betta in most of those. 4064 is great and so are most of the Hodgedon ball rifle powders, and Reloder 19 is pretty much a must-have along with some flavor of 4350. I have probably 40 different powders but most of them are onesies-twosies and most of what I buy in bulk are above in bold. YMMV.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
IMR4198 is another powder which works well in the .32-20.

Group 1 Standard Pressure Loads for Rifle or Revolver

Bullet, Little Dandy#, Pdr. Chg.____Colt Police Positive 5”______Savage Sporter 25”

Accurate 31-105T

LD#1, 3.2 grains TiteGroup_________858 fps, 22 Sd, 61 Es_______1133 fps, 30 Sd, 67 ES

LD#4, 3.4 grains Bullseye__________861 fps, 19 Sd, 47ES________1173 fps, 18 Sd, 54 ES

LD#3, 4.5 grains AutoComp________912 fps, 19 Sd, 53 ES _______1260 fps, 21 Sd, 55 ES

LD#10, 7.5 grains Alliant #2400_____991 fps, 24 Sd, 65 ES_______1348, 29 Sd, 69 ES DO NOT EXCEED!

LD#13, 10.0 grains IMR4227_______985 fps, 25 Sd, 61ES________1280 fps, 53 Sd, 176 ES

LD#17, 13 grains IMR4198________974 fps, 21 Sd, 94 ES________1326 fps, 46 Sd, 138 ES

Accurate 31-114D

LD#13, 10.0 grains IMR4227______962 fps, 27 Sd, 62 ES_______1268 fps, 62Sd, 224ES

LD#15, 11.5 grains IMR4198______777 fps, 43 Sd, 101ES_______1248 fps, 36 Sd, 114 ES
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Very interesting, Outpost 75. I have not used IMR-4198 at those weights in 32/20 WCF. Where I have used it is in Ross Seyfried's black powder-equivalent formula for the hyphenated BP calibers--nominal weight of BP x 0.4, use that product weight in IMR-4198.

Put up in Starline 32/20 brass and capped with the Rem #6-1/2s, 8.0 grains of IMR-4198 got similar results in my arms velocity-wise to those your 11.5 grain loading produced.

The 32/20 can just be an enigma. I think the late Ken Waters said similar things.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Turning into a pretty educational thread.

Right now, I use mostly:
3031, 4198 for 45-70
Unique or Bullseye for 45 Colt/ACP and 38 SPL
Unique, 2400, 5744 for 44-40
4895 for most 30 cal cartridges
4227 for 32-20 and derivatives

Most of what I load for is Winchester levers and pre WW II milsurps. Half of the levers are BP era. Obviously the model 53 32-20 is 20th century updated model '92.