Your opinion, please

Ian

Notorious member
I've been putting this off for way too long, so yesterday I made a patchwork copy-paste of what I hope to be THE universal middle-weight .30 caliber bullet. The nose is my 31-157G, the base is the 31-177BG that's listed as a "SAAMI-Spec 300 Blackout". I liked the lube and crimp groove of the 177 and put it together with the 157 nose so it should fit most .308/7.62 NATO rifles that have a little freebore, and should also do well in .30-'06. Opinions?

am157blk hybrid.jpg
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Should run 175-180?
The short driving section will let it work in shorter neck cases like a 308, maybe even a 300 Savage.
I like it.
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
Want me to draw this up in the program? It looks good and should work well in most everything.
 

Ian

Notorious member
It should be about like the 30 SIL, but a little heavier (your estimate is about the same as mine on weight), and of course have a crimp groove that should be about right to use with any .308. I'd like it to be down around 170 grains, but I'd have to give up something in either the nose or the driving band area and I don't want to do either. I have in mind to round the nose a bit once I get it made and use it in my M1A. .308 bolt guns, and my XCB. If I ever get another .30-06 it would work in that, too, and probably my break-action .30-30s. Heck, it would even work in the Blackout.

Josh, if you're looking for something to do, that would be great! I'd like to see the CP/CG and weight estimates. I sent a copy to Tom last night to draw up, but that other info would be helpful. Also, we may make some tweaks....

The idea is the crimp groove will be there for AR-10s, M1As, etc. with the usual throats that they have, and for the rest of them it can be a displacement and lube groove if seating depth doesn't permit crimping or you just don't want to use it.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
The 30 sil shoots well in my 300 BO, this should too. The larger nose might get beat up on my feed ramps. I need to try the 190X and see what happens.
 

Ian

Notorious member
With the tight neck of the BO the 190X might do just fine. If yo try it and it does, you could always grind a tool and cut a spitzer point in that mould so it would feed better. Bump it with enough 1680 to get it to cycle well and it should be in the 1400 fps arena.
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
ok, I know you were hoping for 170 grains but you kinda built another heavy. I don't think I messed up too bad, so give it a peek and I will tweak it for you.

 

Ian

Notorious member
Oofff....a tank indeed. Wow, that took you what, 15 minutes? Outstanding, and much appreciated.

That front band might need to be a tad shorter, maybe .050". I was going off of memory and guesstimating where the case mouth on 2.015"-long brass ended up on the 157G just before jamming the nose, BUT, let me double-check that tonight on all my .308s and we'll re-group. I'd also like to see a little more CP/CG spread, something closer to 3%. Is there any way you can add a .180"-radius round nose to the drawing just for grins and see what that does to weight and CP/CG? Also, maybe a hollow point that's about .130 diameter and .200 deep?
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
sorry for the delay, I had to tweak the program to make the RN work the way it should and photobucket is becoming a real PITA. Just let me know and I will add/subtract/alter anything you need.

Round Nose:


Hollow Point:
 

Ian

Notorious member
Photobucket has indeed become a total pain, I switched to imgur a while back on advice of some here.

OK, the nose modifications showed just what I was hoping for, a satisfactory spread in CG/CP. Most excellent little piece of info to have!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
if you take out the crimp groove you have my 165-A.
just have tom put a groove in it and slightly lower the nose diameter to fit in a 300.
I know it won't chamber in my tight AAC worth beans but then neither will well over half the 30 cal designs out there.
it will chamber in the wifes ruger in 300, her savage in 30-06, my ruger in 308, the AR-30, my m-14 and all 4 of my 30-30's though.
it would probably chamber [and fit the throats] in everything else I have in 30 cal, I just ain't tried it yet.
 

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
I think I like where this is going, but it needs a plain base for us folks making plain base gas checks. LOL.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I think I like where this is going, but it needs a plain base for us folks making plain base gas checks. LOL.

Or....let's see.....what'd you tell me.....OH! right..."powder coat" :D

Seriously, though, you could. That's one big advantage to this sort of nose shape, if it's too big just seat it deeper. Can't do that with parallel bore-riding noses.
 

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
Hummmm...A down sized 30 Hunter...?

Here's Al's

0PStMjs.jpg


She a shooter ..but out classed by the 315 and its clones,at about the same weight as he proposed design...
IMO...the 315's taper fits more bores (new and worn) than the bullets designed around a pristine , close to SAAMI chamber...
there's no perfect bore/lead/chamber in the real world...MO

The lighter weight MIGHT work better in 1/12 twist than the 188 / 30 Hunter...?

Just a heads up....I've been told that group buys are not allowed here...don't know how far they will let this thread go..
 

Ian

Notorious member
Here are my thoughts on the 30 Hunter. The nose has a bore-riding section that is drawn too large to a.) fit most .308 rifles and b.) with the "standard" NOE oversize can be expected to cast .302 or larger...making it totally useless for any sort of autoloading rifle unless the lands are quite worn down. This is a problem that plagues most .30-caliber bullet designs out there. Also, the nose taper won't allow any "wiggle room" or self-alignment. Also, no crimp groove, and too long. To get it to chamber, even in a bolt-action rifle, the gas check, bottom band, and at least half of the bottom lube groove will be way down in the powder space. I think that bullet was designed more for the .30-'06 or maybe Krag/Jorgensen rifles than anything else. And for an M1A and AR-10, sometimes you really want to crimp the case mouth, they are murder on cartridges, especially the M1A. I've pored over every design out there and bought probably half of them, and still the one needed doesn't really exist. So I aim to fix that....with y'all's help. BTW, this is intended for stout loads that push the envelope. For paper assassination inside of 100 yards, with a bolt gun, plenty of existing designs fill the bill nicely.
 

Ian

Notorious member
IMO...the 315's taper fits more bores (new and worn) than the bullets designed around a pristine , close to SAAMI chamber...
there's no perfect bore/lead/chamber in the real world...MO

You're right about the 315. I haven't pushed it really hard yet, but it has some of the features needed for good support and good accuracy. The Lyman 644 series of bullets are pretty decent, too. However, the nose on the MP .30 SIL, similar to the design we're working on here, will fit most any throat well, regardless of condition. When Bobby Kell invented that nose profile, he had a large library of throat casts and drawings to operate from and had seen a trend. Also, IF the bullet is shaped to conform to a lot of different throat cuts and conditions, AND cast of the alloy needed for the job demanded of it, AND loaded correctly, it can do amazing things. But you can't just cast it of Linotype and bang it down the barrel with ten grains of Unique and expect it to shoot straight.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Designing a bullet is fine. No group buys means sign up lists, honchoes etc.
Besides, Ian is looking to get this from Tom, he doesn't do group buys. Once it is catalogued just call him up and order one.

Now if Ian doesn't mind you could post the drawing on Al's forum and start a buy there. I think that is Al's preferred method anyway.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
When people talk about the 30 Hunter I think of the MP version.

image.jpeg

This one has a crimp groove, the tapered nose, and a nice HP if wanted. This is like a flash nosed, HP 30 sil.

I need to see how they shoot in my 30-30 amongst others. I don't know if the bullet will feed in my 300 BO or not.