Zinc contaminated lead

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
@RicinYakima
OK I HAVE SOME INFO. Talked to the lead smelter- furnace operator at a zinc plant, did some other research and read the thread on a Forum that does not know how to spell;) Gathering up the safety gear, specifically an P-100 mask. Got some "High Yield" Sulfur from the garden center. Went ahead and set aside 5 lbs of the contaminated material to play with, figure that will give me a good even # for the math, and enough to have an accurate sample. Still have to get a hold of a proper thermometer.
 
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Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Be careful, Emmett. It isn't like this is the only hunk of metal ya got to make musket balls for the revolution.
Believe me I will be doing this under a ventilation hood, in a controlled environment, dressed like the Little Lord Fauntleroy of smelting.
 
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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
the green could have been the copper too.
it doesn't like to play nice with lead at that high of a concentration either.
you'll get a sheeting action and weird stalactites from the spout.
Funny you should mention that. I generally use pewter when I feel the need for tin, and I've had some really wicked long beards on my ladles at times, generally at seemingly random intervals. I have a bit of a history for poisoning my alloys with excessive tin, and now I'm pondering just how much copper some of my scrap pewter may have contained.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Tin as an additive alone makes "tails" (that's why you use a drop of "pulled" 63/37 solder to make the thorns on the stems of copper roses), but since it likes to bond with anything in the mix and lead only a few things I can see how odd contaminants would have quirmte an effect on a heavily-tinned alloy.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I get it. Like I said before, poisoning alloys with excessive tin. After finally listening to Ian I have almost completely stopped adding tin to my scrap alloys. If I do add any, I try to guesstimate how much tin I need to add, the I start at around 1/3 or so of what I want to add for my hollowpoint alloy.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
My Experience at De-Zincing Lead

I successfully managed to remove excessive amounts of zinc from some contaminated lead.Will I ever do it again? Well maybe if I was down to the last remaining lead I could get, and had no ammo.

I managed to get a couple older publications to leaf thru while considering my technique. Extractive Metallurgy of Lead and Zinc Cr1970,by Klause E., Gienard H., and Elmar k. ; Lead and Zinc Sintering Cr2012 Baojun Zhao. I also confided in “real world” lead, zinc and silver smelters- furnace operators. Then checked the safety regulation, and Material safety data sheets, on all processes and chemicals I was working with

I also checked other forums to see what they did that worked and failed. Several attempts looked successful. However not one trial I had found, had bothered to take before and after Spectrometer results.

First things, first. I would not recommend someone who has not had professional experience in smelting, and a proper work area even to try this.

I used the following precautions, ventilation system, and a p100 mask. This process produces very dangerous fumes. The kind you think you walked away from only to drop dead 12 hrs later. Next all body parts covered by 100%cotten, pant legs out over good leather boots, leather apron, heavy welders gloves and a good face shield.(this stuff can and probably will pop and splash at you.)

Here is the process I used. I do not recommend doing this, and am posting this as a subject for discussion and not a tutorial. I have vast experience in smelting, and working in hazardous situations. Fluxing of molten metal, working with toxic compounds, has been second hand to me. So, I am what you might call a professional, or at least an idiot.;)

*note: To the best of my knowledge, for this method to be completely successful, at least 1.5% copper must be infused into the lead. My sample was well over that. (Copper and Zinc like each other way more than lead)

Here is what I did. Starting with 5 lb processed, contaminated ingot.

I used “High Yield” Powder sulfur from the garden center


Step1: Bring alloy to 650f and let melt as good as it will. Do Not Stir!

Step 2: Slowly increase temp to 895f. Skim one time to remove initial dross. Do Not Stir !

Step 3: Add a handful of sawdust then slowly cut flame until you reach 644f. Do Not Stir, but fold from top to bottom of pot 3 times then let the alloy sit 10 min. at that temperature.

Step 4: Skim dross off top then add 1 tablespoon of sawdust mixed with 2 tablespoons sulfur. Fold twice. Bring Temp up to 750f . Scrape sides and bottom then fold again a couple times.

Step 4: Turn off the lights and watch the beautiful, bluish; aurora borealis of toxic fumes go up the vent. While dropping the temperature, slowly to 660f. Then after sitting at that for 10 min. skim. Scrape sides and bottom then let sit 10 min. more and final skim.

It should now show a nice, shiny lead puddle.

Step 5 : Reduce with paraffin wax, as you normally would and pour into ingot.

I had 2.1 lb of lead Alloy left out of 5.

Before and after.

PB 56.2%, Zn 31.34%, Cu 3.007%, Fe 3.1%, SB 1.2%, SN 1.18%. SF(other stuff)~4%

PB 98.6%, Zn 0.27%, Cu 0.025%, Fe 0.1%, SB 0.6%, SN 0.02%. SF(other stuff)~1%
Notice, I also removed tin and antimony.
Was it worth it? Was my success a fluke? I don't know. Will I CAST it Yes.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
no, your success wasn't a fluke.
I've done it but used a different process [ heat up and swirl, then heat down and swirl to get the zinc to the center and skimmed] to remove much of the zinc first then done the sulpher scrub.
carbon has a tendency to make the constituents of a lead alloy bind together better, so I skip the carborization step.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
no, your success wasn't a fluke.
I've done it but used a different process [ heat up and swirl, then heat down and swirl to get the zinc to the center and skimmed] to remove much of the zinc first then done the sulpher scrub.
carbon has a tendency to make the constituents of a lead alloy bind together better, so I skip the carborization step.
I would say that temperature fluctuation and control is a key factor in getting the alloy to separate.
Of course, having patients does not hurt either.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
yes temperature matters.
your trying to get the zinc to be barely melted or not quite melted so it doesn't want to bond with anything.
then getting it scrubbed and removed.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Could add that 5# to 100# of normal alloy and saved the trouble.
YEP, totally agree.
However I am not wired like a lot of people.
Was not about using the lead, was about discovering and learning. Then sharing what I learned with other curious folks, to let them later on make informed decisions. Once I get a bug in the brain,sometimes I just got to see things for myself. Like having a scratch that you just got to itch.

Now I know, that I know. So, if it ever comes down to brass tacks, I know a method that will work for me.
More then likely, unless we are in a Mad Max scenario, I will just be watering contaminated lead down or Cranking up the heat for lures. A lot more efficient.

But now I have one more tool in my back pocket.
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Emmett,
Well and deeply researched, safely executed, and easy to understand writeup.
If only one person follows your procedure and has satisfactory results, your efforts will be well worth the effort and expense.

Michael
 

Ian

Notorious member
Excellent! Thanks for sharing all that. I've done the heat to mush phase in a frying pan and fold in copper sulfate thing (that's where you get your copper if it isn't already in the alloy) but didn't use sawdust because I wanted the zinc to stay separated as Lamar mentioned. I also had a lot less zinc than you did. I'm not doing that again because while I survived it the fumes probably killed half a rain forest somewhere the next week.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Excellent! Thanks for sharing all that. I've done the heat to mush phase in a frying pan and fold in copper sulfate thing (that's where you get your copper if it isn't already in the alloy) but didn't use sawdust because I wanted the zinc to stay separated as Lamar mentioned. I also had a lot less zinc than you did. I'm not doing that again because while I survived it the fumes probably killed half a rain forest somewhere the next week.
I do believe , if I had stirred instead letting the convection work the mix. Then only fold and scrape when I did. I probably would have been carbon bonding all kind of things together.
I do not believe one would have had success using the sawdust, in a greater amount.Or stirring it in.

On a side note, I am kind if wondering something.
Some of those other guys, and gals, that tried methods close to this. They ended up with bullets that were not quite fully formed.
Was thinking that some of those attempts were actually successful at removing enough of the zinc. However, like I, they also pulled most all of the tin out. Thus the instances of wrinkled bullets and badly formed bases and driving bands.
Just a thought for consideration.
 
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Poppy42

New Member
It is possible to remove small amounts of zinc from alloy with Sulfur. Mix garden sulfur in to the Molten mix it acts like a flux and separates the zinc and your scoop it off the top. You can actually remove quite a bit of zinc it just depends on how much time and how much sulfur you have. And as a test, pour iingots and let it cool And put a few drops of pool Acid on the ingots if it fizzes is you need to remove some more zinc. if you have no fizzing not enough zinc to worry about. It is possible to Cast Boolets from zinc. The biggest problem is getting complete fill out in the mold. I have no personal experience with casting zinc bullets but I’ve known some who have done. accuracy is another problem .it not worth the efforts as far as I’m concerned. But I have removed zinc from Wheel weights.

I hate autocorrect!!!!!!!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the problem with zinc bullets is they don't weigh anything.
you can ramp them up to stupid speeds no problem, but by 100yds they have slowed down to a crawl.