.22-250 Powder Coating

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Well, I shot 1000 yds yesterday with my buddy's F-class .308. Since the range is only about 6 miles from my house, I might get the bug. Rather than jump in with both feet, I thinking of just dipping a toe or two into the shallow end of the pond.

I have a Rem 788 in .22-250. The round have to be supersonic at the target because they use electronic targets that require the bullet be supersonic in order to pick it up and display the shot placement on the screen. Now, I can buy jacketed bullets and go down that path. But I thought it might be fun to start off with powder coated cast bullets.

I imagine if I spend some time here the I might find the answers to my questions with a search. But I'm thinking that this thread may be a good place to record the adventure, blow by blow if it truly materializes. So, allow me to ask some basics.

1. How fast can I push a powder coated bullet? Can I achieve my goal of a supersonic projectile 1000 yds downrange? If the answer is no, then that pretty much ends this topic.
2. If this is possible, will my accuracy be sufficient to even bother trying? Velocity is one thing. Getting them in the black is another.
3. And if I'm still headed in a positive direction here, is there any brand/type of powder coat and/or process to apply it that would benefit my end goals of an accurate, supersonic round for 1000 yds?
4. And finally, if all the above is possible, suggestion for bullet type. I know that match jacketed bullets are boattail spitzers, some with hybrid ogives to provide centering and best possible BC. I don't expect to be able to find cast bullets that would work using jacketed bullet design feature. But I know there are spitzer types and a flat bottom with a gas check will be required.

I think the exercise would be fun. And I think it would also be a great learning experience.

I think those three basic questions need to be answered before I even consider proceeding.

At the risk of being a bit of an arsehole, I really don't want opinions based upon what somebody may have read somewhere or just feels the need to offer an opinion. I don't mind somebody sharing something that they have read, as long at they present it as such. What I'd really like, is to hear from those with first hand experience with supersonic powder coated cast bullets.

And I realize that I might be dreaming to think I can do this with the .22-250. But guys are shooting 6mm PRC at 1000 yds and doing well. So, knowing that the .22-250 is a flat shooting little devil, it should do the job nicely, at least for my initial intentions. Don't forget, I'm toe dipping here, not going off the 10 meter board.

Thanks.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I can’t really answer but will offer an observation.

Bullet design is critical to accuracy at 1000 yards. It is also critical to staying supersonic that far. I don’t know of any cast bullets that will do that.
A 22-250 also generally lack the twist rate required for a long, heavy bullet for caliber. A flat base will be a big detriment but I agree that a jacketed type design just won’t work for cast.

The powder coating should help immensely in getting well into the 2500 fps realm.

I will keep a close watch on whatever you decide to do. There is nothing to be lost in trying to do the “impossible”.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Search for HV results for cast in 223. Coating is just another tool. I go fast (2700) in 308W but 22 is another story.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Well, the adventure ended right out of the gate. Twist rate in my 788 is 14" and to slow to stabilize a big bullet.

Oh well...
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
If you buy a Savage bull barrel you can swap the 224 bolt face and ream the chamber whatever . Or do a 223 WSSM and make it a WSM . 8-9" twists are all the rage now . 26" barrel to burn up that tblsp of powder should get it done .
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
you ain't making 1-K with a 22-250 unless you screw a 1-7 twist barrel on it that's about 28-30" long.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
other than that, you don't need powder coating to shoot a 250 fast with cast.
i know i've broke 2700 fps by merely using the same load and bullet i use in my 223.
i also use the same combo in the 220 swift, they all do the same thing they'd do with jacketed bullets.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
Fiver, what is your lead recipe for those fast bullets?

I was shooting 222 tonight and 308 yesterday, both with pc’d gas checked bullets and wondering how fast I could push them. 308 I was hitting 2050 with 23gr of 4227 (not max) and was really wondering what they would take. I’m using *pure* wheel weights. Not sure what the 222 was doing as I didn’t set the chrony up tonight and was just “plinking” with a buddy.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
3 parts ww's to 1 part linotype with 2% more tin added.
water dropped or not it don't make much difference.
throw 22.5grs of 4895 under it to start.

now to throw a curve in the mix.
mix the above 50-50 with ww alloy with ~1% tin mixed in and water drop them, sub in after you find your load.
it's a pretty good lesson.
 

Ian

Notorious member
you ain't making 1-K with a 22-250 unless you screw a 1-7 twist barrel on it that's about 28-30" long.

This.

As far as velocity of powder coated .22s, I've bumped over 3K fps with accuracy using an M-4gery with 7-twist 14.5" pinned to 16.25" barrel.

20200723_132146.jpg

20200723_201617.jpg

This was 100 yards using a powder-coated Lyman bullet from a mould Waco gave me, I'd have to check the number, thinking it's about 60 grains dressed. This is getting close to all you can get out of a short barreled 5.56x45.

I've also pushed a 68-grain bullet to 2900 something from a 24" barrel with about the same results, again nearing pressure limits.
 

Ian

Notorious member
was shooting 222 tonight and 308 yesterday, both with pc’d gas checked bullets and wondering how fast I could push them. 308 I was hitting 2050 with 23gr of 4227 (not max) and was really wondering what they would take.

The general answer is that a powder coated, gas checked cast bullet can be pushed as fast or faster than jax. Coating and friction characteristics change the pressure curve a bit and get a little more push than jax. I find a balanced antimony/tin alloy works well, and not too hard. 2.5/2.5 air cooled from the oven is good for most things. I've run .308 to 2600 with 10.4 bhn 50/50 wheelweight/soft scrap with good accuracy, the key is to have enough alloy toughness to hold the rifling without leaking but enough malleability to hold the rifling without leaking. It is very easy to want to make your alloy too brittle or too hard for your system, especially if you read too much.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The longest ranges I have fired a 223/5.56 is 600 meters. I have an AR-15 in A2 format with the dial-up rear sight that is spec'ed for the M-885 (62 grain FMJ/BT @ 3050 FPS), and the Speer clones of that bullet were point-of-aim = point of impact from 300-600 meters. Grouping was about 1.5-2.0 MOA.

Moving on to the 69 grain Sierra MKHP @ 2900 FPS, the 300M setting hit where the sights looked. At 400 & 500, bullets hit progressively lower, and at 600M the 700M setting centered hits about 1" below point of aim. Grouping was 1.25-1.5 MOA. I REALLY LIKE the 69 MK in 223 for distance. That bullet is as close as I get to "Javelin hurling" in the 223/5.56.
 
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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
A new variable has been thrown into the mix. My shooting partner made it very clear that I was not to spend a dime on equipment. He has several custom built, target rifles and I can have my pick. He said if I chose the 6mm, he also has bullets. I don't like to take advantage of good natured people like him. But the use of the rifle/scope will allow me to dip more than my toe into the water and see if the sport will light my fire.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
berger has been kicking out their target/heavy type 6mm bullets recently.
i got no clue when their next run will be, but there was none to be had 5-6 weeks back so??
 

swc-tr

New Member
Snake, which F-class discipline are you going to shoot?
F-TR? Then only .308 or .223, as dictated by the rules.
F-Open? Then you need high BC javelins, lots of powder, and couple spare barrels lined up.
Just saying.....
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
The general answer is that a powder coated, gas checked cast bullet can be pushed as fast or faster than jax. Coating and friction characteristics change the pressure curve a bit and get a little more push than jax. I find a balanced antimony/tin alloy works well, and not too hard. 2.5/2.5 air cooled from the oven is good for most things. I've run .308 to 2600 with 10.4 bhn 50/50 wheelweight/soft scrap with good accuracy, the key is to have enough alloy toughness to hold the rifling without leaking but enough malleability to hold the rifling without leaking. It is very easy to want to make your alloy too brittle or too hard for your system, especially if you read too much.
The above should be enshrined in some sort of hall of fame for posts containing more answers to our issues than most anything else. I've read it repeatedly and find something new and true every reading, and I'm not even considering the PC end of it.

Well written Ian.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Snake, which F-class discipline are you going to shoot?
F-TR? Then only .308 or .223, as dictated by the rules.
F-Open? Then you need high BC javelins, lots of powder, and couple spare barrels lined up.
Just saying.....
We are not even to that point yet. First step is seeing if this adds to my shooting diversions. Hence the reason for going slow here. There was a time when I was shooting trap that I found myself shooting 5 to 7 times a week. I don't want to find myself with several rifle disciplines that put me into the same situation. We have a summer place on a lake and what gray hair is taught me is hobbies/diversion/enjoyment can conflict with each other and that kinda removes some of the fun from the equation. I try to seek a balance in the things that I do now that I'm retired.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The above should be enshrined in some sort of hall of fame for posts containing more answers to our issues than most anything else. I've read it repeatedly and find something new and true every reading, and I'm not even considering the PC end of it.

Well written Ian.

Well if you're going to enshrine it, at least keep it open for more peer review, eh? What the thermoset paint layer does is gives just a little more skin toughness and a much lower friction coefficient to the bullet; the alloy and powder pressure curve still need to be right for the application (PC is not a cure-all for wrong alloy, wrong powder, or poor bullet fit)..although it does allow a soft, squishy alloy to be pushed a lot faster with accuracy than otherwise is typically possible for grease-lubed bullets. Starting a workup with a soft, low-antimony alloy in a high-powered rifle, one will find a point where groups begin opening up gradually and that toughening the alloy slightly will bring them back. Up to the pressure limits of .308, .223, and 6.5 Swedish with standard twists I have not found anything "harder" than 15-16 bhn (obtained from the aforementioned "balanced alloy") necessary, the larger the caliber the softer you can get away with.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
No worries Ian- I'm fresh out of enshrining powder! That post just struck me as saying just about everything I could think of that is just the opposite of what "conventional wisdom" says about shooting cast fast. It struck a chord. It still does.
 
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