.32-40

[richhodg66]

A while back I got a rifle in .32-40, finally got around to shooting it a bit this afternoon. I do cast for this (have loaded and shot .32 Winchester Special a good bit and have several molds), I was using some I got from a guy who was selling off his Dad's stuff he wasn't going to use, plain based flat nose design about 165 grains. Using my old Lyman manual, I shot mostly Unique loads at 50 yards between six and eight grains. Data is pretty light in that manual, which is fine, unlikely I'll ever hunt with this one anyway.

I used brass formed from .30-30 brass. The best seemed to be 7.5 grains. I'm gonna play around with seating depth a bit more, and I know the brass is a tad short, but I was getting primers backing out a little, seemed like it got better the higher the charge was, they back ed out noticeably more with the lighter loads.

I'd rather not drill flash holes if I don't have to. Would switching to a powder like Bullseye help with this? Lighter or heavier bullet?

One thing, I need a taller front fight or get a tang sight for it (1899 Savage). The rifle promises to be a fun range toy, bore is good, trigger pull is pretty good. Sights aren't bad as open sights go. Gotta pursue this more as I get time.

Thoughts?

 

[Ian]

Check your headspace.

 

[Spindrift]

If you’re resizing your brass in a FL die, the protruding primers might indicate you’re setting the shoulder back a bit more than necessary.
I’d play with COL using a dummy, until you find a COL that just chambers with a bit of land contact. Load some rounds, with a good crimp; these will «headspace» on the ogive of the bullet. Firing these will fire-form brass without stretching it in the most vulnerable place. For subsequent reloads, adjust die to neck-size only (or minimal shoulder-bump if you have the means to measure this reliably).

Increasing the pressure of the loads might make the used brass look more «right», but iit won’t fix the underlying problem. Reducing shoulder set-back might.

Just my 0,02$, which is exactly what Ian said, only more wordy
Good luck, sounds like a fun rifle!

 

[richhodg66]

.32-40, no shoulder.

Got some stuff to do today, but I'll get back to it probably tomorrow. I resized all the brass I shot last night, very little effort to do, so I suspect it is a low pressure thing. The load data in that old Lyman manual really is pretty mild, understandable for such an old cartridge, but a 99 action is pretty strong and I think I'm going to try some healthier loads.

 

[L Ross]

.32-40, no shoulder.

Got some stuff to do today, but I'll get back to it probably tomorrow. I resized all the brass I shot last night, very little effort to do, so I suspect it is a low pressure thing. The load data in that old Lyman manual really is pretty mild, understandable for such an old cartridge, but a 99 action is pretty strong and I think I'm going to try some healthier loads.

My go to load for a Model 1894 full octagon 1923 vintage Winchester was 14.0 grains of 4227 shooting the 323297 at 180 grains. I loathe short brass and tried making my .32-40 out of the .38-55 original length brass Starline makes. Too many neck wrinkles. Some older .32 W.S. brass would fire form out to the correct length. When I got a 1925 .30-30 Model 94 rifle a let the .32-40 go.

My Cody Ballard in .32-40 has the short chamber and as a breech seat rifle one case will last me thousands of shots. Same powder charge only a 200 grain bullet. With no bullet in the case of course the pressure issue is completely different.

 

[Spindrift]

.32-40, no shoulder

Aaaah, I see!
Norwegian here, obviously no clue about elderly American cartridges

 

[richhodg66]

Spendthrift, if you can picture a .30-30 with a tapered case and no shoulder, that's what it looks like. It's a catridge that's long obsolete, but was quite a target round at one point.

I do have some for real .32-40 brass around here that Dad had, probably collectable, and I had this other brass formed from .30-30 so I'll keep using it. I doubt there will be any ramifications from the slightly short cases with the kind of loads I'll be shooting. I don't have much 4227 and am keeping it for the .351, but I was wondering is 2400 might work well.

 

[Bret4207]

Per Ken Waters "Pet Loads"- with a 181/182 gr Lyman- 13-15.0 4227, 15-18.0 4198, 24 IMR-4895. Waters tended to go light in cast loadings. Using a 170 jacketed he got up to 20-4198, 25 RL7, 28 3031, 29 4895, 27.5 4064. Obviously you need to start low and see what your rifle likes. A 99 Savage is going to be many times stronger than some of the old very light actioned SS that used the 32-40. You have a real nice rifle there, I shot one many years ago. Yours is only the 2nd one I've ever heard of in a 99x32-40. Kinda rare. Your primers should act right once you up the pressure. Is this a solid action or takedown? The TD are known for developing some "loosy-goosy" stuff at the barrel/action interface.

 

[richhodg66]

It's a solid action. I'm a 99 aficianado and have a few, I feel fortunate to have obtained this one (technically an "1899", I think they dropped the 18 in the 20s sometime. Stock is replaced but close to original contours and external metal finish isn't real good, but the bore is very good. I think it will be a good shooter, but it'll be relegated to casual plinking here at the house, very unlikely it'll ever see any field duty again.

 

[richhodg66]

Besides this one, I have a small rolling block in .32-40 Dad gave me when we moved him into assisted living. I'm not an expert on rolling blocks, but have been told by some who are that the size frame it is wasn't strong enough for chambering in .32-40 (the rifle was relined at some point). I don't know. I have shot it, but only with the real mild starting loads in that Lyman manual and everything seemed fine, but I'm a little concerned about loading full power ammo and the idea it may accidentally find its way into the rolling block.

When I started with the .32 Special, I got a Herters single cavity mold which is nominally a 150 grain RN I believe designed for the .32 Remington. I need to locate it and cast a few, I like the idea of a lighter bullet for these kinds of loads.

 

[RicinYakima]

Aaaah, I see!
Norwegian here, obviously no clue about elderly American cartridges

Think 8.15 X 46 R case.

 

[Ian]

Rich, the 1899 can have headspace issues as the lockup detent in the bottom of the receiver gets worn by the case hardened lever nose. If the back of the bolt doesn't rise all the way up in the back (it should be nearly flush with the receiver on top), then the case rim will have too much fore/aft travel (headspace). Also, if the rear of the bolt locks up too low, the breech face will not be perpendicular to the chamber.

The firing pin drives the case forward, then the primer pops and backs out of the pocket until it contacts the breech face, and then one of three things happens dependent on the amount of peak pressure the system achieves:

• Nothing, the primer remains proud of the case. Loads with pressure this light typically soot the outside of the case but are generally harmless if not too much gas leaks.
• Pressure pushes the case back in the chamber against the breech face before/as the case expands to obturate the chamber, partially or mostly reseating the primer in the process.
• Pressure expands the case starting at the thinnest part and obturates the chamber, the case grabs the chamber walls tightly, and as peak pressure becomes high enough, the case stretches near the head rearward until the breech face stops it, thus reseating the primer. Repeated excessive stretch causes head separation.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Always wanted a single shot 32/40. Made a 25/35 and 32/20. But never a 32/40. I have dies and brass and even a actyal Lyman 165g mold made for it.

I always considered it a baby 38/55.

CW

 

[Bret4207]

Besides this one, I have a small rolling block in .32-40 Dad gave me when we moved him into assisted living. I'm not an expert on rolling blocks, but have been told by some who are that the size frame it is wasn't strong enough for chambering in .32-40 (the rifle was relined at some point). I don't know. I have shot it, but only with the real mild starting loads in that Lyman manual and everything seemed fine, but I'm a little concerned about loading full power ammo and the idea it may accidentally find its way into the rolling block.

When I started with the .32 Special, I got a Herters single cavity mold which is nominally a 150 grain RN I believe designed for the .32 Remington. I need to locate it and cast a few, I like the idea of a lighter bullet for these kinds of loads.

A Remington? I believe there were 4 sizes. The #4 is a tiny 22-32 RF size, pretty sure the 32-40 would be entirely oversized for the barrel shank. The #2 and 5 were a sort of medium sized and the #1 was a great big military black powder model. You should look it up and figure out what you have. A 32-40 in a #2 or 5 wouldn't be too much I don't think. In a #1 or the later smokeless action (#7 maybe?) it would be fine. Better to check, my memory ain't so hot these days.

 

[Bret4207]

It's a solid action. I'm a 99 aficianado and have a few, I feel fortunate to have obtained this one (technically an "1899", I think they dropped the 18 in the 20s sometime. Stock is replaced but close to original contours and external metal finish isn't real good, but the bore is very good. I think it will be a good shooter, but it'll be relegated to casual plinking here at the house, very unlikely it'll ever see any field duty again.

Lucky dog!

 

[richhodg66]

I'll check the rifle out. Cases were not sooty.

That rolling block is pretty small. I really kind of planned to just shoot it with cat sneeze loads using round ball and maybe three or four grains of Bullseye.

 

[RicinYakima]

I'll check the rifle out. Cases were not sooty.

That rolling block is pretty small. I really kind of planned to just shoot it with cat sneeze loads using round ball and maybe three or four grains of Bullseye.

That would be a good idea.

 

[fiver]

low pressure will allow primers to back out.
well they all allow the primers to back out just the more pressure loads re-seat them again, that's why you see a little top hatting, and flat faced primers.

check the rim height on some other brands of brass, you might get lucky and find one that has a bit more rim thickness.

 

[Matt]

My .32/40 is on an early Winchester M94 action with a 1937 dated carbine barrel that has been shoehorned together. It’s apparent that it started life as a rifle. The barrel is pristine and is a pretty good shooter with a Lyman tang sight at 50 yards. The original brass I’ve had with the deep cannelure at the “neck” is prone to small splits, even with regular annealing. I’ve had much better case life with converted .30-30 brass. I agree the shorter length does no harm, especially with light to black powder level loads. Since the .32/40 headspaces on the rim there is no need to enlarge your flash holes. The rim stops the case from being driven foward by the primer detonation. I’m not sure how many lever action Winchester rifles rifles I’ve checked were actually in good headspace. The only Savage I have chambered for a rimmed case is a 99 carbine in 30/30 and it won’t accept a fired case from any of my M94/64s etc. It also shoots very well. I’m guessing yours will too. The tapered case wants to push itself out of the chamber upon firing so your loads must be very light. You don’t mention the amount of primer protrusion but I’ll guess it’s slight. Increasing your charge slightly will probably cause the case to seat firmly against the breach face and push the primer back in. With factory ammunition you’d never see this phenomenon. I load my .32/40 with Red Dot, Unique, SR 4759, and 2400 at velocities between 1100 and1400 fps. with no primer protrusion. I use the Lyman 321297, 319247, and the RCBS 32170FN with good results. A .32/40 is a good problem to have.

 

[Jeff H]

Cool old cartridges! I like anything based on that old basic case.

I shoot 7.5 grains of Unique in a 24" 30/30 Contender Carbine with a 165 grain cast FP, CCI 200 large rifle primers, no enlarging of the flash hole and do not have any issues with primers backing out. My best guess is 1200 fps, but I've not bothered chronograph it because it shoots very well and I'm just poking paper with it for now. No sooty necks and the necks do expand, so it's not a terribly under-pressure load. Granted, the 30/30 has more volume, but that would only serve to exacerbate a low-pressure problem, if there were one. I'm guessing I'm at about 20 to 21k cup based on data in the latest Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.