44 mag bullet test
- Thread starter Brad
- Start date
Tom is making a few changes for me. Nose is getting longer to make the meplat smaller. He is also removing a lube groove and drive band from the body to reduce weight.
I'm looking for something around 265 gr with lots of bearing surface, a small enough meplat for downrange accuracy, and a full diameter nose that reaches well into the throats for keeping things centered.
Below is the photo Rick sent of a bullet he said has done very well at 200 in a 41 mag. That was the inspiration.
I'm looking for something around 265 gr with lots of bearing surface, a small enough meplat for downrange accuracy, and a full diameter nose that reaches well into the throats for keeping things centered.
Below is the photo Rick sent of a bullet he said has done very well at 200 in a 41 mag. That was the inspiration.
I have no idea what mold that bullet is from, it is from Lead Head commercial caster, 18 BHN. I was working up loads for a friends FA 41 mag and I didn't want to go into the bullet casting business so he bought 500 of that bullet. I had to resize them to fit the FA throats. No idea what the lube or alloy is but this is the single most accurate long range revolver bullet I've ever worked with. Scoped from the bench shooting at 150 and 200 meters it amazed in group after group. Looking at it it's kind of obvious why, the entire bullet is bearing surface. Properly sized in a properly dimensioned revolver the bullet that exits the muzzle is only changed with rifling engraving, zero sizing in the forcing cone, zero bumping up or obturation in the bore.
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Soon as I get the word that a new drawing is up I will post it here.
I'm looking to ahve the nose a little longer so it has about a .2 meplat for better long range accuracy. I'm also having him remove a full drive band and grease groove to reduce weight.
I hope to get about 265 gr. It may end up with a nose long enough to cause troubles in revolvers with shorter cylinders, the Redhawk has a longer cylinder than the Blackhawk by something like .070.
I'm looking to ahve the nose a little longer so it has about a .2 meplat for better long range accuracy. I'm also having him remove a full drive band and grease groove to reduce weight.
I hope to get about 265 gr. It may end up with a nose long enough to cause troubles in revolvers with shorter cylinders, the Redhawk has a longer cylinder than the Blackhawk by something like .070.
Ian
Notorious member
Just be careful about your throat clearance with that nose. I designed an almost identical plain-base bullet for .357 Magnum and after two or three cylinders worth of shooting I started having trouble seating the cartridges. A few more and I had to stop and clean. Bullets were sized about a half-thousandth larger than the throat to begin with. Another pitfall is swollen bullet syndrome where you go to the range with two-month-old ammo and find the bullets were eating too much ice cream while you weren't looking and don't fit their clothes anymore.
I already realize a need to make a new sizer maybe .0005 to .001 smaller than I currently use. A little small will be better than a little big as big won't let rounds chamber.
Age related diameter change will also be a concern. I'm gonna need to cast a bunch of a common alloy and size as needed so they grow before sizing, not after.
If the dimensions are right this should shoot really well.
Age related diameter change will also be a concern. I'm gonna need to cast a bunch of a common alloy and size as needed so they grow before sizing, not after.
If the dimensions are right this should shoot really well.
That is exactly the goal.
This is sort of an exercise in treating a revolver like a rifle. Get a throats size bullet straight into the throat. One end held in place by neck sized brass, the other held by the throat. In this case the bullet has a bunch of freebore to get thru but as the bullet exits the case it is held straight by the throat. As the nose exits the throats the rear keeps it straight.
I have not measure the depth to rifling in the barrel forcing cone but I bet the nose will hit rifling while the rear is still held by the throats in the cylinder.
Like a rifle, load a straight round, keep it centered in the chamber, and don't let the bullet get off path.
The measuring I have done has shown me that pretty much any bullet I own has a front band that does NOT enter the throats on loading. That was an eye opening discovery. The bullet may well be pointing off center as the loaded round diameter is smaller than the chamber dimension. Measure your revolver cylinders guys, the bullet has a lot more gap to cross from end of case to start of throats than you think.
I need to order some brass from Midway. Rick wants me to trim, a bunch, off some 445 cases to make custom brass that reaches the very end of the chambers. My current brass is .053 short of that. Reduce the gap even more says Rick. Seeing that Rick has way more experience on this I will shut up and listen. Well, I won't shut up, I will just pester with more questions.
This is more a learning experience than anything. Shooting nice groups will be the icing on the cake but learning about HOW to do it is more important to me.
This is sort of an exercise in treating a revolver like a rifle. Get a throats size bullet straight into the throat. One end held in place by neck sized brass, the other held by the throat. In this case the bullet has a bunch of freebore to get thru but as the bullet exits the case it is held straight by the throat. As the nose exits the throats the rear keeps it straight.
I have not measure the depth to rifling in the barrel forcing cone but I bet the nose will hit rifling while the rear is still held by the throats in the cylinder.
Like a rifle, load a straight round, keep it centered in the chamber, and don't let the bullet get off path.
The measuring I have done has shown me that pretty much any bullet I own has a front band that does NOT enter the throats on loading. That was an eye opening discovery. The bullet may well be pointing off center as the loaded round diameter is smaller than the chamber dimension. Measure your revolver cylinders guys, the bullet has a lot more gap to cross from end of case to start of throats than you think.
I need to order some brass from Midway. Rick wants me to trim, a bunch, off some 445 cases to make custom brass that reaches the very end of the chambers. My current brass is .053 short of that. Reduce the gap even more says Rick. Seeing that Rick has way more experience on this I will shut up and listen. Well, I won't shut up, I will just pester with more questions.
This is more a learning experience than anything. Shooting nice groups will be the icing on the cake but learning about HOW to do it is more important to me.
Ian
Notorious member
Rick is full of good ideas.
Pound cast of the end of the chamber and beginning of the throat.
I made a short steel rod to fit the case, about 1/8 in short. Made another steel rod to fit the throat. One rod in a flared case, insert into chhamber. Oiled unsized 265 RD in from throat. Tap into place. Use a tapered punch to get the bullet nose below end of cylinder. Tap with throats sized punch until it bounces a little. Make sure case is still fully seated, tap out.
Notice the little straight section at the end of the case. That is about .05. The taper from chamber to throats is .1 long. With this brass I need .150 in front of the case mouth at full diameter just to reach the beginning of the throat!
Kind of an eye opener.
You can also see how much the case is sized down below chamber diameter. Good reason to neck size the brass. At least the back of the case is a close fit.
Kevin Stenberg
Well-Known Member
I'm watching with much interest. Especially because the cylinder on my R/SRH is really long also.
I haven't had much interest in 44 cal. molds in a long time. But the picture from Toms Gallery is very interesting!
I haven't had much interest in 44 cal. molds in a long time. But the picture from Toms Gallery is very interesting!
Brad use the 445 brass. Properly length sized you will eliminate all of that gap, all of that will then be in the throat and not behind the throat.
As for leading the cylinder you won't at all if the bullet is properly sized. I shoot many hundreds of rounds with zero leading in the cylinder or the bore. Here's how I do it. It may take playing with different sizers to get it just right but place a sized bullet in each throat, properly sized it won't fall out, you can even jiggle the cylinder and they will stay there. Using just a pencil you should be able to tap them through. You don't want them any tighter than that, you don't want them any looser than that. You want all of the full diameter front of the bullet inside the throat when chambered. You already have the beginning of a decent gas seal before you even pull the trigger. There will be no sizing down in the throats, no shaving, no bumping up or obturation in the bore. The bullet that exits the muzzle will have been changed only by rifling engraving. With enough full diameter bullet so chambered the throats hold onto the bullet and will keep the bullet perfectly aligned with the center line of the bore. Neck sizing the brass helps but the throat will hold it straight and center.
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As for leading the cylinder you won't at all if the bullet is properly sized. I shoot many hundreds of rounds with zero leading in the cylinder or the bore. Here's how I do it. It may take playing with different sizers to get it just right but place a sized bullet in each throat, properly sized it won't fall out, you can even jiggle the cylinder and they will stay there. Using just a pencil you should be able to tap them through. You don't want them any tighter than that, you don't want them any looser than that. You want all of the full diameter front of the bullet inside the throat when chambered. You already have the beginning of a decent gas seal before you even pull the trigger. There will be no sizing down in the throats, no shaving, no bumping up or obturation in the bore. The bullet that exits the muzzle will have been changed only by rifling engraving. With enough full diameter bullet so chambered the throats hold onto the bullet and will keep the bullet perfectly aligned with the center line of the bore. Neck sizing the brass helps but the throat will hold it straight and center.
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