5 cavity NOE, .44 cal. W/C mould is on the way.
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
Trapperscott
Member
I know of one LEO involved shooting that involved a wadcutter. A state trooper had been to the range that afternoon for qualification. He got a call while at the range that he responded to immediately. He didn’t swap out the range ammo for duty ammo before leaving. He was carrying a Smith model 29. After answering the call he was given he resumed patrol. After dark he stopped a van that was later confirmed stolen occupied by three degenerates. The trooper smelled Marijuana and got all three out of the van. While cuffing two of the miscreants the third pulled a knife and stabbed the trooper above the heart. The trooper after being stabbed was back peddling and tripped and sat down. As he was going down he unlimbered his 29 and went to work. All three dudes, (2 in cuffs) ran for the van. Trooper went to work and planted a 44 magnum wadcutter about an inch or so left of the would be murderers bung hole immediately ending his flight to freedom!
That trooper recovered and lived quite a few years to tell that story. I’m proud to have known him.
That trooper recovered and lived quite a few years to tell that story. I’m proud to have known him.
Trapperscott
Member
need to know 4 inch or 6inch?
4 inch model 29.
4 inch model 29.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Back when I started on the job my Dept. had recently switched to S&W 158 gr. jacketed hp. Prior to that they carried wadcutters cast in the basement range with Hensley & Gibbs 10 cavity gang moulds from hospital x-ray lead over 2.7 gr. of Bullseye loaded on a Star progressive loader. The use of these ceased shortly after the below incident. It was relayed to me by my fellow night shift workers and this is as I recall it being told to me 47 years ago.
One of our more adventurous officers returned from Vietnam not that many years earlier, and was chasing a burglar on foot through the back yards. He was armed with an S&W Combat Masterpiece and an old chrome Ray-O-Vac two cell flashlight, standard issue. As the bad guy clambered over a chain link he turned and the officer thought the guy had a nickel plated gun. Turns out the burglar also had a two cell chrome plated flash light. The officer loosed a round at the miscreant and though he "missed" he burglar realized that this had gotten serious and gave up.
In the back seat of a pastel colored Crown Vic the arrestee was bitchin' about sittin' in something wet and wanted to know if a drunk had peed in the back seat. There were no plastic replacement back seats in those days. When the transporting officer got to the detective division and into good light he saw the prisoners left rear blue jeans pocket was blood soaked. He and the prisoner both thought the guy had gotten poked by the top wires on the fence. A quick examination of his posterior showed a bullet hole. The E.R. Doc fished a perfect wadcutter out of the guys left butt cheek. It had gone in about an inch and a half.
Things were a lot different 50 years ago. My co-workers enjoyed regaling the FNG with tales of yore. They also had one about the stupidity of the city council who they said had complained the third shift officers were using too many flash light batteries compared to the other shifts. The joke was that our wives were younger and were alone at night.
One of our more adventurous officers returned from Vietnam not that many years earlier, and was chasing a burglar on foot through the back yards. He was armed with an S&W Combat Masterpiece and an old chrome Ray-O-Vac two cell flashlight, standard issue. As the bad guy clambered over a chain link he turned and the officer thought the guy had a nickel plated gun. Turns out the burglar also had a two cell chrome plated flash light. The officer loosed a round at the miscreant and though he "missed" he burglar realized that this had gotten serious and gave up.
In the back seat of a pastel colored Crown Vic the arrestee was bitchin' about sittin' in something wet and wanted to know if a drunk had peed in the back seat. There were no plastic replacement back seats in those days. When the transporting officer got to the detective division and into good light he saw the prisoners left rear blue jeans pocket was blood soaked. He and the prisoner both thought the guy had gotten poked by the top wires on the fence. A quick examination of his posterior showed a bullet hole. The E.R. Doc fished a perfect wadcutter out of the guys left butt cheek. It had gone in about an inch and a half.
Things were a lot different 50 years ago. My co-workers enjoyed regaling the FNG with tales of yore. They also had one about the stupidity of the city council who they said had complained the third shift officers were using too many flash light batteries compared to the other shifts. The joke was that our wives were younger and were alone at night.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
The 38 Special full wadcutter, particularly when driven at target load velocities, is not the ideal projectile for self-defense. However, you must consider the context of the day.
When the politically correct powers that be, limit you to the standard velocity 158-grain lead round nose (a bullet profile that has notoriously poor terminal ballistics), the wadcutter appears to be a better alternative. The performance of the wadcutter wasn’t incredibly superior in terms of stopping power BUT it was an alternative that an officer could get away with. The fact that the WC was used in training made it plausible that the cartridge could accidentally be carried on duty. Savvy cops knew that excuse would fly and if their only two choices were a round nose bullet and a wadcutter, they might opt for the wadcutter. Not because it was great but simply because it might have been the better of two bad choices.
Political correctness isn’t a new affliction, it has existed in different forms over the years.
When the politically correct powers that be, limit you to the standard velocity 158-grain lead round nose (a bullet profile that has notoriously poor terminal ballistics), the wadcutter appears to be a better alternative. The performance of the wadcutter wasn’t incredibly superior in terms of stopping power BUT it was an alternative that an officer could get away with. The fact that the WC was used in training made it plausible that the cartridge could accidentally be carried on duty. Savvy cops knew that excuse would fly and if their only two choices were a round nose bullet and a wadcutter, they might opt for the wadcutter. Not because it was great but simply because it might have been the better of two bad choices.
Political correctness isn’t a new affliction, it has existed in different forms over the years.
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Thumbcocker
Active Member
If you want old school....
RBHarter
West Central AR
Before settling on a Kiethish SWC for game , and the 358-158 RNFP , I read volumes if not tomes some of which was likely written by folks here .
To paraphrase probably 1000 posts and my own experiences;
"Cast bullets create tissue disruption via wake like waves from a flat nose with more aggressive/disruptive/destructive waves formed by larger with more square edges."
Based on that the Lee 358-158 RNFP with about an 80% meplat is about as good as it gets short of a square WC of nominal weight loaded out for full power ........ unfortunately in most applications it's also only good to about 50 yd precluding it's use for the extended ranges of carbines .
Morbid curiosity made me load 10 gr of Unique with a 358??? (Nose out WC) 148 in a 358 Win with a 1-14" . While not perfect round holes at 125 yd they were close enough. As memory serves something like .357×.375 in 6" or so . Keeping in mind that it wasn't load work it was see what happens when work .
To paraphrase probably 1000 posts and my own experiences;
"Cast bullets create tissue disruption via wake like waves from a flat nose with more aggressive/disruptive/destructive waves formed by larger with more square edges."
Based on that the Lee 358-158 RNFP with about an 80% meplat is about as good as it gets short of a square WC of nominal weight loaded out for full power ........ unfortunately in most applications it's also only good to about 50 yd precluding it's use for the extended ranges of carbines .
Morbid curiosity made me load 10 gr of Unique with a 358??? (Nose out WC) 148 in a 358 Win with a 1-14" . While not perfect round holes at 125 yd they were close enough. As memory serves something like .357×.375 in 6" or so . Keeping in mind that it wasn't load work it was see what happens when work .
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
C.E. Harris wrote about the use of wadcutters in his exellent article, "Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter"
A quote from that Harris aricle:
"...The choice of a full charge wadcutter sounds strange today, but the load has an interesting history. During the 1970s and into the early 1980s 158-gr. lead RN and SWC standard velocity loads were issued by D.C. MPD, Baltimore PD, NYPD, LAPD and many others. Hollowpoints were deemed unacceptable during that era due to political concerns. I knew well several now-retired officers who were involved in shootings, and who had consciously carried wadcutter ammo, because it was “more effective.”
While this was strictly against regulations, it was not an uncommon practice. The officers involved seemed to get away with the excuse “we had just come from the range and that was the ammo we had.” A friend who is a retired Major in the Military Police reported the same, because wadcutter ammo obtained from the MTU pistol team was better than the Army’s M41 Ball. Unlike today, it was common for cops to shoot wadcutters on the range and change to LRN or SWCs for carry, as they were not required to practice with “duty ammo.”..."
Not surprising, I had heard remarkedly similar statements from old officers that worked in the northeast U.S. long before Harris published that article. The practice may not have been sanctioned but it certainly existed.
A quote from that Harris aricle:
"...The choice of a full charge wadcutter sounds strange today, but the load has an interesting history. During the 1970s and into the early 1980s 158-gr. lead RN and SWC standard velocity loads were issued by D.C. MPD, Baltimore PD, NYPD, LAPD and many others. Hollowpoints were deemed unacceptable during that era due to political concerns. I knew well several now-retired officers who were involved in shootings, and who had consciously carried wadcutter ammo, because it was “more effective.”
While this was strictly against regulations, it was not an uncommon practice. The officers involved seemed to get away with the excuse “we had just come from the range and that was the ammo we had.” A friend who is a retired Major in the Military Police reported the same, because wadcutter ammo obtained from the MTU pistol team was better than the Army’s M41 Ball. Unlike today, it was common for cops to shoot wadcutters on the range and change to LRN or SWCs for carry, as they were not required to practice with “duty ammo.”..."
Not surprising, I had heard remarkedly similar statements from old officers that worked in the northeast U.S. long before Harris published that article. The practice may not have been sanctioned but it certainly existed.
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
It was common in Ohio also! Plus you could pull them apart (what do you think made inertial bullet pullers so popular) and dump the power and put in 4.5 grains of Unique.