American Deer Hunter - 1950s book.... The understudy rifle

[MW65]

Sorry.... couldn't think of a better place for this.... feel free to shuffle it to a better forum as you see fit!

An interesting topic in this old hunting book about using an "understudy rifle" which uses a similar action to your hunting rilfe... the understudy also would have a similar trajectory up close (say to 200yds), but would be in a smaller, easier to handle caliber, ideally inexpensive to shoot, and a bit versatile, and able to hunt other species to get your practice, but also do some "stump" or pine cone shooting for practice. This will also get us practicing for range estimation, and being able to hit the "nail on the head".

Its an interesting subject... and especially for those of us who hunt deer/elk seldomly, how do we get practice for when we do?

The book discusses something like a 348 win, an a 218 bee... both in lever guns, trajectory supposedly similar out to 200. there's probably some other correlations i'm sure... but i would argue that we could whip up some cast in certain hunting rifles/calibers which will get us that off season practice, especially if we limit our distance shots to something reasonable )100 yds or so...

35 Rem - 200gr standard.... could practice with 160gr g/c swc, or 125gr RNFP for hunting jackrabbits... or similar would a 357mag lever be a good understudy rifle??? Or would you want to swap out to sticking with the same caliber but adjust the weight of the cast bullet and velocity to get a similar trajectory to the full sized companion?

300 SAV - a 150 jkt is pretty standard, but what about going with a 155gr Lee, or 180gr RCBS? i'd argue that using a lighter load and practicing out to 100/150? or would it be a 120gr plinker round and limiting our range?

308 bolt action... would it be a 17HMR as a understudy rifle? or simply use ltwt cast loads to get your practice in?

Would be interested to hear what others think of this 1950's concept...

 

[richhodg66]

Not real sure about needing the same trajectory. Just shorter ranges and scaled down targets.

A few years ago, I got a small ring Mauser sporter I adore, developed a practice load of ten grains of 700X and the Midsouth soup can bullet, about 135 grains I could cast in bulk. Shot it a lot from field positions ta 100 yards. I got pretty handy with the rifle. Loaded a much heavier hollow point cast bullet load in it for deer. I've only killed one with it so far, but the concept of a practice load and a killing load in the same rifle is better than the idea of having two similar rifles in different calibers, at least in my opinion.

 

[Bret4207]

Francis Sell wrote the book, an underappreciated writer IMO. I like both ideas, but it's a lot easier to load down in the main rifle than find an understudy rifle these days.

 

[Rick H]

Francis Sell wrote the book

Isn't he the guy who ruined his credibility trumpeting how the 20 ga. shotgun was superior to all others for long range goose hunting? I bought into his nonsense as a youngster, right up until I bought a 3" 12ga. and proved to myself he lived in a fantasy world.

I still love the 20ga. for upland bird hunting but he really must have been desperate for something to write about when he came up with that.

 

[richhodg66]

If one did not handload, this idea would have more merit. The first rifle I bought on my own, i.e., dad didn't fill out the paper work, is a plain jane Savage 110 in .223 back when Savage only made one action length and it looks and handles exactly like every other Savage 110 at the time. If I had one of those in say, .30-06, I could practice with the .223 with less expense and recoil for sure.

It is nice to be able to gain versatility in a rifle with handloads.

 

[RicinYakima]

Born in 1902, he lived in a different world. He never married or had children, but was an old batchler school teacher. And he was a "woods runner" on the Oregon coast. From when school was out, he was in the woods and every weekend during the school year. Died in 1993.

I'm not much of a bird hunter, but where he lived, 40 yards was a long shot if you could see that far in the fog of winter. And I don't think he was ever a handloader, buy my memory may be faulty.

 

[RBHarter]

Similar articles have run in Outdoor life and Field and Stream as early as 1938 and about every 5 years. The general theme being the all season sportsman should have more or less a 12 or 20 ga shotgun, a pistol "such as a 4" 357 as to allow for mild 38s for practice" , a rifle suited to the largest game one might hunt , and a rimfire rifle as closely matching the heavy rifle as possible.

Enter the Savage 10/110 and Axis series rifles .
You can 458 Lott or 460 Weatherby for Africa or the zoo rabies break out . A nice 308-300 WM in cal from 25-375 , an a fun little rimless varmint cartridge in the 222/223 clan in 3-4 otherwise identical rifles or in one action with 3 bolt heads and barrels .

Being a minor Mauser junkie I have a selection of 95 & 98s in 22-250,358, 257 R , and 7×57 . With the M70 being being basically a clone that list includes and 06' also .

I in the case of the Savages we have 223 , 308 , 7×57 , 45 Raptor, and an available swap to 06' .

There resides a 760 06' , Model 14 32 Rem , and slide 22 LR.

It's not hard to amass calibers and cartridges that shoot equal , or very nearly so, holds and cheap ammo for one of them like a 223 and 06' that will shoot about the same holds to 200-250 yd .

I was pleased with the 264 WM and the results of a paper patched 260-120 and 19 gr of Unique tame is an understatement and the 400 yd hold over difference was only about 28" . Data allows for 26 gr .

 

[MW65]

I can understand both schools of thought... my "point blank" hold for several rifles is out to 150, maybe 200... which out here in Oregon can be a long poke on the clearcuts. Range estimation and holdovers are a great skill to have.

I'm honestly more of a fan of downloading to cast and get more "muscle memory" on the rifle I'm using... knowing how to load, work the safety, all the familiarizing I need, so if I have a blacktail pop in front of me 40 yards away, I can instantly find the safety and connect with a shot.

 

[RicinYakima]

I'm honestly more of a fan of downloading to cast and get more "muscle memory" on the rifle I'm using... knowing how to load, work the safety, all the familiarizing I need, so if I have a blacktail pop in front of me 40 yards away, I can instantly find the safety and connect with a shot.

My "big game" rifle is a Springfield I used for the last 30 years I hunted. Loaded 110 grain cast and up to 220 grain Hornady. Last rifle I would ever sell.

 

[fiver]

223 and 30-06 work pretty good.
just gotta work the velocities a bit for barrel lengths, but running them both at 2800-2850 is about as easy as it gets.

the only down fall is the 223 rainbows it in to 300 yds. and the 0-6 just has a couple of inches of drop, but 1-200 for the 223 and 2-3 for the 0-6 is pretty darn close.

 

[JustJim]

Hmmm. . . . I think my "understudy rifle" is my 30-06 Mauser. It is a fair match for handling, trajectory, etc for my 9.3x62. At least until I get around to cutting down the spare 9.3, then I'll have to figure something else out.

 

[richhodg66]

My methods and the terrain I hunt would make it to where I would have to be deliberately setting myself up for a shout over 100 yards, I just don't do things that way. Farthest I've ever killed one was maybe 175 yards, clean kill, but I had to look for her a little longer than I usually do. Most of mine have been inside 100 yards, many, very, very much inside 100 yards. I tend to think like a bowhunter even when I'm using a rifle.

 

[CZ93X62]

Hmmm. . . . I think my "understudy rifle" is my 30-06 Mauser. It is a fair match for handling, trajectory, etc for my 9.3x62. At least until I get around to cutting down the spare 9.3, then I'll have to figure something else out.

^^^ THIS! ^^^

9.3 x 62 with 250 grain Ballistic Tip and 30-06 x 180 Nosler Partition. These are my game rifles. They shoot to same POIs to 400 yards, which is far longer than I would ever try a shot on a fine game animal.

 

[MW65]

I do love my marlins in all sorts of flavors... my inexpensive "understudy" was a marlin 39a, which has similar sights to my sporting carbine, saddle ring, and big bore...

Now the 22lr just makes for fun practice at the silhouette range and training up new shooters who love the older vintage cowboy style rifles. I might drag it with me for some close in squirrel hunts, or maybe not...

 

[Bret4207]

Isn't he the guy who ruined his credibility trumpeting how the 20 ga. shotgun was superior to all others for long range goose hunting? I bought into his nonsense as a youngster, right up until I bought a 3" 12ga. and proved to myself he lived in a fantasy world.

I still love the 20ga. for upland bird hunting but he really must have been desperate for something to write about when he came up with that.

No clue on that, I'm not much of a shotgun reader. Plus, I'm a 16 ga guy. I have several of his books and enjoy them.

 

[richhodg66]

I'm a 16 gauge guy too. I'm no shotgun expert, but it does seem like many shotgunners over do it on the power spectrum. That said, for something like goose hunting, especially with steel shot, it seems dumb to not go with the bigger gauge.

My trap gun is a 12 and seems like a cannon, been considering lately if switching to a 20 might be the way to go.

 

[todd]

my dad (RIP) and i are both fanatics of the 16ga. dad had (now i have) an old Browning A-5 in Sweet 16. when i was young, i used to use my friend's dad old side by side in 16ga. i can't remember the name, it could be Sears or Stevens or Montgomery Wards, but it shot great!!! i would use (middle) a small brass bead and the front bead (bigger) to line up my shots. the 16ga was short barrel shotgun. i think it was about long as my Win m94. grouse and pheasant in a heavy game load of #6 and doves were #7 1/2 or 8's. i luved that gun!!!

 

[Bret4207]

I'm a 16 gauge guy too. I'm no shotgun expert, but it does seem like many shotgunners over do it on the power spectrum. That said, for something like goose hunting, especially with steel shot, it seems dumb to not go with the bigger gauge.

My trap gun is a 12 and seems like a cannon, been considering lately if switching to a 20 might be the way to go.

No steel around in the days Fran (I think his nickname was "Spud") was writing. But he isn't alone. Col Hatcher was convinced the Hi Speed 22LR HP was a good self defense gun, a whole bunch of writers thought the 17 cal at 4K+ fps was good for everything, George Nonte was fond of the 380. To each their own!

 

[fiver]

been considering lately if switching to a 20 might be the way to go.

the Kreighoff Parcour is the only 20ga. trap type gun i've been able to find... jus sayin i done looked.
just throw a taller wad in the 12ga. hull and put less shot in there, you'll be fine.

for some close in squirrel hunts

head shots my man... LOL
you get the exact opposite effect of an upper body shot with something like a varmint bullet at 3-K.
they just stand there and start shaking then tip over after 5-6 seconds.

 

[RBHarter]

Uncle Bingo shot trap with a 28 ga .

He was an adopted uncle and a 6'3" mans man Marine. He shot 23-24 pretty regular with it , several 25 straight and 3-4 50s over the 7-8 yr he had it and shot regularly. Never shot a 100 with it but had several with 12 ga and a couple with 20 ga .