AR optics

[300BLK]

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but I'll put this HERE. I have multiple uppers of the 5.56 and 300BLK persuasion. I've tried red dots, prism scopes, and low powered variables. Each seem to have its pros and cons, but here are my suggestions:

Low powered variable scopes, with or without illuminated reticle are pretty simple. The lack of need for battery power is a plus. True 1x is best for both eyes open shooting, but not necessary. First (or front) focal plane means that the reticle is magnified as the power goes up, but relative distances between the potential aiming points remains constant. Prices vary considerably, but the Weaver Kaspa 1.5-6x is an excellent value for the price. If $$ were no object, I would opt for a SWFA 1-4x or 1-6x http://swfa.com/HD-C12503.aspx

Prism scopes are more compact than low powered variables, but far less common. The Burris AR series may be the most commonly known, but the Primary Arms units are (IMO) better and less $$. Reticles are etched, most are 5.56/308 compatible, but PA has 300BO/7.62x39 units as well. The PA units I have observed are extremely clear. Primary Arms is DIRECT, meaning that they have the optics manufactured to their specs and sell direct, so no distribution middlemen to drive up costs. http://www.primaryarms.com/scopes/c/140100/filter/100000001298eq100000001442/

Red dots vary from really cheap to really expensive. These are the(generally) no magnification units (optional magnifiers) that mostly use batteries and are dead in the water without. Dot sizes vary, battery types vary, and so does size. There are both reflex type (Burris Fastfire and clones) and the optical tube variety (think Aimpoint, Tasco Propoint) that have been around for quite some time. Trijicon Acogs are very expensive. The Lucid HD7 is pretty interesting if you don't need magnification, and are OK with a battery powered reticle. In fact, its a multi-reticle unit with automatic automatic brightness compenstion, and available 2.5x magnifier. http://www.primaryarms.com/l-hd7/p/l-hd7/

 

[Brad]

My 300 wears a Leupould 1.75-6x variable. I bought the heavy wire, shoulda got the fine wire. May switch it with the 375 H&H that wears the same but with fine wires.

A red dot is fast to acquire and is like shooting a shotgun to me, both eyes open and swing to where you need to be. Great for fast shooting or moving targets. Good in low light too.

I have no experience with illuminated reticules, never needed one so I never bought one.

 

[Ian]

I'm not s soldier, LEO, or competitor, so my needs are different. For range work, I've really come to like the Bushnell TRS-25 and a UTG riser. That exact combination weighs around six ounces, co-witnesses with irons, and serves me well in any light.

For the rest they either have iron sights or hunting scopes. One of my hunting scopes is a digital NV and for what it is, I like it a lot.

I've been eyeing the Holosun sights lately, but my Bushnell sights just won't quit working.

 

[300BLK]

I've read that the newer version of the TRS-25 isn't as well liked as the older. The newer version moved the placement of the emitter from 6 o'clock to 4 o'clock.

Holosun may well be the maker of the Primary Arms sights, and PA sells both. IF I were to purchase another 1x red dot, likely it would be the Lucid HD7. My current red dot is a Primary Arms Aimpoint clone with the multi-reticle and uses a AA battery.

For range work the Weaver Kaspa "Zombie" 1.5-6x has worked very well. I like the target turrets and the fact that mine has been so repeatable. That version may have been discotinued, but the red illuminated version with simpler reticle is available. Its not a $800-$1K SWFA, but it works well. Drawbacks are the "tight eyebox" and size.

My own Primary Arms 2.5x prism sight is a pretty good compromise between size, weight, and features. It has an etched, multi-aim point reticle, but also has magnification and daylight bright illumination. I've tried the 3x with 300BLK/7.62x39 reticle and 4x with 5.56/308 reticle, and prefer the 3x. Neither of those were available when I bought the 2.5x.

 

[freebullet]

I've tried a lot of red dots only have 1 now. It's an aimpoint- no regrets. Most of the others were inadequate in one way or another. The price of a used aimpoint is worth it to me if going that route. Battery life, dot clarity/size, & durability make it a clear winner for me.

Having said all that I prefer a hunting scope on most.

 

[Brother_Love]

I've read that the newer version of the TRS-25 isn't as well liked as the older. The newer version moved the placement of the emitter from 6 o'clock to 4 o'clock.

Holosun may well be the maker of the Primary Arms sights, and PA sells both. IF I were to purchase another 1x red dot, likely it would be the Lucid HD7. My current red dot is a Primary Arms Aimpoint clone with the multi-reticle and uses a AA battery.

For range work the Weaver Kaspa "Zombie" 1.5-6x has worked very well. I like the target turrets and the fact that mine has been so repeatable. That version may have been discotinued, but the red illuminated version with simpler reticle is available. Its not a $800-$1K SWFA, but it works well. Drawbacks are the "tight eyebox" and size.

My own Primary Arms 2.5x prism sight is a pretty good compromise between size, weight, and features. It has an etched, multi-aim point reticle, but also has magnification and daylight bright illumination. I've tried the 3x with 300BLK/7.62x39 reticle and 4x with 5.56/308 reticle, and prefer the 3x. Neither of those were available when I bought the 2.5x.

Does it co-witness w/o a riser? I like the Primary Arms prism sights.

 

[300BLK]

Does it co-witness w/o a riser? I like the Primary Arms prism sights.

I'm not sure which you are referring to. The current PA and Holosun offerings are compatible with various micro bases. None of my ARs have iron sights.

 

[Winelover]

Currently, my AR-10 carbine is wearing a Burris 6 x 24 Signature and set at 24X for load development with cast. The alternate sight is a Trijicon Reflex with a chevron recticle. For close distances, use the whole chevron.....for longer ranges, the apex of the recticle. I am spoiled when it comes to red dot sights and or scopes. I have tried numerous one's and they all fall short. In low light situations, I do not want the hassle of batteries that are prone to Murphy's Law. I also want fully automatic recticle brightness compensation.....last thing I want to do is adjust rheostats when your life may depend on it or that big buck shows up in the waning light.

I had my bows and hunting revolvers equipped with Armson/Trijicon OEG's and was extremely satisfied with them for more than 20 years. They have to be re-lamped every ten years or so. Well......Trijicon decided not to support them any longer. They still are operable in daylight....just not in low light.

I scrambled to find replacements sights that worked with 1" rings, but none could hold a candle to the OEG's. Tried a Ultra-Dot and found it lacking, in comparison. Even at the lowest setting it's too bright for my use.

Have a Leupold VIII in 1.5 X 5 with illuminated German Plex. Had to return it to them at least three times before it worked properly.
Wanes in comparison to the Trijicon 1 x 4 Accupoint......which never needs a battery, compensates for ambient light and you don't have to turn it on or off. My wife's Model 70 in 308W, wears the Accupoint 3 x 9 and is one of the first that were introduced back when the MSRP was @ $500 and is still trouble free.

 

[Ian]

My boss has a Trijicon reflex of some sort (Tritium-fired) that he bought new a year or two ago and it had a dull amber delta/chevron thingy. It was horrible, and then the windage adjustment quit working. He sent it in for repairs and they really squared it away, now it had a pleasant green aiming point and much more precise-feeling adjustments, I have to agree it's a good concept and (now) brilliant execution. I like it a lot more than my Leupold Deltapoint, mainly due to the color.

I also hear a lot of others having issues with their $1200+ Leupold illuminated reticle scopes, particularly in cold weather.

 

[freebullet]

Not a fan of leupold. Have a pair of their rangefinder binos and the glass is nice but the electronics suck. ESPECIALLY in the cold, when I hunt the most. Never again. At 50°f they might get 5 readings then they say dead battery then after it warms up you'll get another 3 readings....sad. test battery when you get back and it's fine, their electronics not so much.

Ar308's for me are destined to wear zeiss scopes before they are even built. I can shoot in partial moonlight no, night vision needed.

I like the nikon & the bdc reticle for less expensive guns. Burris makes some real decent stuff too.

I'll buy refurbished, returns, good used ect & get the best deal I can on a quality optic in all cases.

I rented a sub gun some years back for wife to try out. The trijicon red dot it wore was nice but, it's dot wasn't very clear and the battery life spec is not great. I have never liked the auto dim controls on any. I want the dot where I set it and small.

Not ar specific but I really enjoy having some type of ballistic reticle. It really aids in obtaining repeatable results with multiple loads in the same gun over varying distance without changing your zero setting through physical adjustment.

Having recordable reference points allows us to get additional data. Very useful in seeing how temperature affects the same load through a year's time.

 

[300BLK]

A few months back I purchased another Weaver Kaspa 1.5-6x. The 1st was the Zombie version with green illumination and Z-CIRT reticle http://www.weaveroptics.com/downloads/WO267_CIRT_Reticle_11_x_8-5.pdf. That version of the scope has been discontinued, but the red illuminated Ballistic-X version is still marketed (click on illuminated IRB-X) http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/riflescopes/kaspa_scopes/kaspa_tactical/. This 2nd scope has noticeably better glass than the 1st. I mounted it in Burris Signature Z rings and then on 1" UTG riser blocks so as to get the scope to a reasonable height off the picatinny rail. After running up and down its full elevation several times It was zeroed and then put through the paces out to 500m and back. I'm very satisfied with its performance despite its modest cost.

The Z-CIRT reticle is more bold than the IRB-X, so better suited for quick acquisition. The IRB-X is finer, so better for more precise work.

Last weekend I had the opportunity to use a friends Primary Arms 4x prism scope with 300BLK reticle. While I don't see the 4x currently on their page, I'll link the 3x version so as to show its reticle http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...nted-762x39300bo-acss-reticle/p/pac3xak300bo/ . Its a better reticle for extended range work than the horse shoe with dots as in my 2.5x version, also not on currently listed. The 4x 300BLK reticle was quite useable all the way to 500m, so got me thinking that 4x was enough for a 300BLK AR.

I've been looking at various scopes with my own purpose in mind. I like the "donut" or "horse shoe" for quick aquisition, but ideally would prefer a mildot type reticle so as to be able to make fast elevation changes by hold vs dialing on turrets. I've lusted after the SWFA HD 1-4x http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx
and the SWFA 1-6X http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx for quite some time, but hesitated at spending that much for an AR optic. I knew of the Falcon Menace 1.5-5x http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-15-5x30-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P47586.aspx , but thought the 2 mil spacing on the reticle a bit coarse. The Vortex Viper PST 1-4x can be purchased with mil/mil or MOA reticle/turrets, has the illuminated donut, and has had excellent reviews. These seemed to be priced the same from all sources until this past week. $500 for the target turrets or $480 for the capped turrets, except for the "make offer" deals on the auction site, and most recently, $419 or $429 for the MRAD variety.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle

 

[Josh]

Excellent thread on optics I must say, I have tried many different types of sighting systems and have come to a simple conclusion. I like them all!

I will say I am not a huge fan of scopes on the AR, I even went with a 1-3 power on my x40 upper and didn't like it much so I moved it over to my CZ 416 Rigby and fell in love, for me the AR is an open sight/ red dot rifle.

If I were to make a 24" 6x45 upper I may reevaluate my choice on the scope as it would be a dedicated groundhog upper. I have now a nice "sensibility upgraded" beater/SHTF AR that does more than I ever could ask, I have taken many deer, groundhogs, skunks, and opossums. It has done it in all weather conditions and times of day. If I had to have just one AR this would be it.



I had the pleasure (and I do mean that 2,000%) to shoot an ACOG on a rifle I built, sweet jebus it was one of the best things I have ever shot. IDK how well it would do in the dark (where a red dot/holo shines) but for day to day use it was simply amazing. Almost worth the $1,500 price tag... almost

 

[Winelover]

Trijicon's illuminated optics are self compensating for ambient light......no need to fiddle with a rheostat. The models that I have, can be taken into a completely dark room and the aiming point will dim down to almost nothing, so as not to ruin your night vision.

 

[300BLK]

Trijicon definitely has some interesting offerings, but a bit pricey for my needs.

I do prefer optics to irons on an AR, so that is why mine are so equipped. Some of my long sight radius rifles have irons.