Arsenal Molds

[JonB]

Can I assume your alum material thickness are actually...
.010"
.012"
.014"

I would try .006" to .008"
if your shank is .255"

6 months, huh.
I think you've bitten off a huge bite in this hobby.
Casting and loading your cast bullets is a whole hobby by itself.
Add to that PC
Add to that Making GCs
You've added so many factors to this, it'll be difficult to troubleshoot a problem when it arises.

I'll add one more thing, while I don't PC, I have read about it, and I know some people will install the GC before they PC and some do this after...that in itself can fix a problem or create a problem. Is your Shank .255" before PC or after? If it's after, I would want to know how thick the PC is at the top of the shank. As I said, I have never worked with PC, but right now, I am wondering if it acts like paint? Where when in a liquid state, will it "wick" into the angle that is on top of the shank? Making it thicker in the area where a GC would typically crimp on.

 

[JonB]

Are you using a Pat Marlin tool? In case you are, this is an important trick:

I assume he has the Matteson tool.
Matteson tool is also on FB.
He just started this GC making a couple years ago, He has mastered the 30 and 224, but I didn't think he was making other calibers.
Personally, I'd think 6.5 would need to be custom made tool for the application, since American guns will be .264 and the foreign Mil Surps will be large, varying from .266 to .270 (my Jap custom needs .270). At one time, I had 4 different NOE molds, and one of them had a larger Shank than the other 3, causing me to order custom thickness GC's for that one mold.

If it is Matteson tool, his contact info in post #7

single pass check maker

I found a guy that has a small shop on facebook that sells check makers fo $60 delivered. He says 3-4 weeks for delivery right now. He also has some decapping rods made out of tool steel. I sent him an order for a .35cal. check maker. Dave's mini machine shop is his FB page.

www.artfulbullet.com

 

[Foo]

I have an issue trying to gas check these Arsenal 92g 6.5 bullets. They are powder coated but using three different thickness aluminum only had 4 hold the gas check, the rest didn't stay on., and I think these were just a fluke.
Any ideas?????? I've gas checked. 30cal and .223 cal with now issue. These bullets are 26 on BHN , not sure if that matters.

Since they are powder coated have you tried shooting without the gas checks? I just loaded up some 145gn plain base PC'd bullets in 6.5x55. Hope to try them this weekend. I hope they work, I just bought another Swede at auction. A Swede 6.5 M38 this time.

 

[Foo]

Can I assume your alum material thickness are actually...
.010"
.012"
.014"

I would try .006" to .008"
if your shank is .255"

6 months, huh.
I think you've bitten off a huge bite in this hobby.
Casting and loading your cast bullets is a whole hobby by itself.
Add to that PC
Add to that Making GCs
You've added so many factors to this, it'll be difficult to troubleshoot a problem when it arises.

I'll add one more thing, while I don't PC, I have read about it, and I know some people will install the GC before they PC and some do this after...that in itself can fix a problem or create a problem. Is your Shank .255" before PC or after? If it's after, I would want to know how thick the PC is at the top of the shank. As I said, I have never worked with PC, but right now, I am wondering if it acts like paint? Where when in a liquid state, will it "wick" into the angle that is on top of the shank? Making it thicker in the area where a GC would typically crimp on.

I tried PC first then GC. On a 30 cal. they wouldn't stay on worth a hoot. Also they would not go on flush with bottom of bullet because they flexed open forcing the sides over the PC. Now the bottoms are concave. I then crimped on GC first and PC over it all and it works fine. I thought I would have to run thru sizer twice but not necessary. Run thru sizer to size and crimp on GC. If after PC'ed it is too thick size a thousandth or two smaller next time and then PC. I find I don't need to size after PC as bullet is nice and round already. Just my personal view, your milage may vary.

 

[stlg67]

Since they are powder coated have you tried shooting without the gas checks? I just loaded up some 145gn plain base PC'd bullets in 6.5x55. Hope to try them this weekend. I hope they work, I just bought another Swede at auction. A Swede 6.5 M38 this time.

I have not tried shooting them yet, just built a grendel and that's what I'm hoping to shoot it it.

 

[stlg67]

I assume he has the Matteson tool.
Matteson tool is also on FB.
He just started this GC making a couple years ago, He has mastered the 30 and 224, but I didn't think he was making other calibers.
Personally, I'd think 6.5 would need to be custom made tool for the application, since American guns will be .264 and the foreign Mil Surps will be large, varying from .266 to .270 (my Jap custom needs .270). At one time, I had 4 different NOE molds, and one of them had a larger Shank than the other 3, causing me to order custom thickness GC's for that one mold.

If it is Matteson tool, his contact info in post #7

single pass check maker

I found a guy that has a small shop on facebook that sells check makers fo $60 delivered. He says 3-4 weeks for delivery right now. He also has some decapping rods made out of tool steel. I sent him an order for a .35cal. check maker. Dave's mini machine shop is his FB page.

www.artfulbullet.com

No sir, I seen this guy on ebay and he made two tools , .30 cal.and .223 cal for gas checks and they work great. This tool the insert is to small I believe and he's making another one. I made one today at work on the lathe and so far it's working okay. Only time will tell with these aluminum gas checks, I've only used store bought copper ones.
These bullets are powder coated and I know that adds to the bullet. Thanks for your help with this issue.

 

[stlg67]

I assume he has the Matteson tool.
Matteson tool is also on FB.
He just started this GC making a couple years ago, He has mastered the 30 and 224, but I didn't think he was making other calibers.
Personally, I'd think 6.5 would need to be custom made tool for the application, since American guns will be .264 and the foreign Mil Surps will be large, varying from .266 to .270 (my Jap custom needs .270). At one time, I had 4 different NOE molds, and one of them had a larger Shank than the other 3, causing me to order custom thickness GC's for that one mold.

If it is Matteson tool, his contact info in post #7

single pass check maker

I found a guy that has a small shop on facebook that sells check makers fo $60 delivered. He says 3-4 weeks for delivery right now. He also has some decapping rods made out of tool steel. I sent him an order for a .35cal. check maker. Dave's mini machine shop is his FB page.

www.artfulbullet.com

No sir, I seen this guy on ebay and he made two tools , .30 cal.and .223 cal for gas checks and they work great. This tool the insert is to small I believe and he's making another one. I made one today at work on the lathe and so far it's working okay. Only time will tell with these aluminum gas checks, I've only used store bought copper ones.
These bullets are powder coated and I know that adds to the bullet. Thanks for your help with this issue.

 

[stlg67]

For these bullets, I make aluminium gas checks using 0,006in (0,16mm) material, from disposable serving trays. This works well for me. Even the thinner beer can material has worked reasonably well for 6,5mm gas checks. I install checks before coating.


Are you using a Pat Marlin tool? In case you are, this is an important trick:

When you cut the discs, they will have one edge that is rounded, and one that is burred. When you drop the disc into the forming cup, make sure the side with the burred edge is facing up. The disc will self- centre (much) more easily, and those burrs will end up facing the bullet shank, where they sink their horrendous fangs into the bullet, never to let go.

No sir I seen a guy on ebay and he made two tools one for. 30cal and one for .223 and they work great. This tool makes the checks in one station. I believe thw insert is too small and he's making another one. I've not make gas checks before and the thickness of the material is ranging .110-.114.

 

[RBHarter]

.114 × 2 = .228 . .268-.228 leaves a .04 shank on the bullet . Thems some mighty beefy gas checks . Most diamond plate tool boxes are only .128 or 1/8" aluminum. 1/10 is pretty heavy .
Just throwing it out there.

 

[stlg67]

.114 × 2 = .228 . .268-.228 leaves a .04 shank on the bullet . Thems some mighty beefy gas checks . Most diamond plate tool boxes are only .128 or 1/8" aluminum. 1/10 is pretty heavy .
Just throwing it out there.

Its my first stab at making gas checks, I had seen where several people were using the Amerimax flashing that ranged between .110-.114. We'll see how they shoot I guess.

 

[fiver]

your saying .0014 wrong.

anyway aluminum can work harden and not co-operate with being squished down again it will try to spring back to where it was.
it's like Brass cases that have been shot 10 times without an anneal, or bullet jackets that have been sized down.

 

[Bret4207]

Are you sure your material is .110-.114 and not .010-014? That's almost 1/8" thick and would require a shank near 1/4" smaller than the bullet body on a bullet just over 1/4" in diameter. What are you using to measure? Something is way, way off here and you need to start at square one.

 

[Jeff H]

I'm watching and absorbing all this.

I have a couple piles of PC'd bullets with GC shanks, which I think I probably should have GC'd before I PC'd, but maybe there's another way.

When I cast them, I just cast them because I was on a roll and figured I might want to try them. They may get used after all.

 

[JonB]

your saying .0014 wrong.

anyway aluminum can work harden and not co-operate with being squished down again it will try to spring back to where it was.
it's like Brass cases that have been shot 10 times without an anneal, or bullet jackets that have been sized down.

 

[Jeff H]

your saying .0014 wrong.

anyway aluminum can work harden and not co-operate with being squished down again it will try to spring back to where it was.
it's like Brass cases that have been shot 10 times without an anneal, or bullet jackets that have been sized down.

Just an observation to back that assertions- what I've seen with the aluminum stock I've been using: it does work-harden as far as I can tell, and the 'check will mic' .001" larger than the rest of the bullet when sized. If I 'anneal" the 'checks, they do not spring back, and will measure the exact same diameter as the bullet, and usually form to the base better - but I've not tried that with PC'd GC rebates yet, so they may just smush.

The material is coil stock slit specifically for GCs by a guy who goes by "Wonky," from England. Sold a bunch of the stuff here and it petered out when (I believe) everyone had bought two lifetime supplies of coil stock and quit buying.

"Anneal," in this case means I lay a bunch of GCs base-down on the electric hot plate, turn it up to "high" and let the sit for 15 or 20 minutes, can't remember which now. They go from too stiff to bend between a thumb/finger to folding right up easily. Wait until they coo to do that. NOt ayin' anyone here's that stupid, but we all have our moments.

Just wanted to toss that in there in case it helps with any of this.

 

[Bret4207]

I think the guy is using .014 material, not .140 and not .0014. That or his measuring tool is way outta whack.

 

[fiver]

.0014 is a common gas check thickness.
a 308 bullets gas check shank [off the top of my head] is like 284 add in .0014 and you get like 312.
which is why they are used for 303 type rounds too.

 

[JonB]

.0014 is a common gas check thickness.
a 308 bullets gas check shank [off the top of my head] is like 284 add in .0014 and you get like 312.
which is why they are used for 303 type rounds too.

looks like too many zeros to me.

 

[fiver]

well 14 thousandths,, whatever/however.
that's why i write it out.

 

[stlg67]

The gas check aluminum material is .010-.014, my mistake on previous message. I made another insert for the tool and they are crimping on okay now.