Bevel Base vs. Flat Base

Ben

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
In your opinion :

If you take 10 super accurate 38 Special revolvers and fire them all at 50 yards with proven accuracy loads with 148 gr. Wadcutters. Changing only bevel base vs. Flat base bullets , will ( as an average for all 10 revolvers ) :

( A ) The Flat base ( plain base ) bullets prove to be the most accurate ,or
( B ) The Bevel base bullets will prove to be the most accurate , or
( C ) There will be no significant difference in their accuracy.


Ben
 
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Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Just a SWAG on my part but I think with the lower velocity of the 38 Sp there wouldn't be much difference.
 
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462

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I don't shoot wadcutters so I vote for
(D) All of the above.
 
M

MW65

Wetside, Oregon
I shoot plenty of wadcutters... perfect bases are most important to me... also they're pretty fun for just plinking. I use lee 148, both conventional and tl, rcbs 38-148, and the 'short' 358432s... they all work great!
 
D

david s

Well-Known Member
For no actual reason or experimenting, I am prejudice against bevel base cast bullets. The bevel base has always seemed an unnecessary refinement. I am aware some like them as it is supposed to help the bullet drop from the mould. popper is on the right track; my guess would be the ones with the best bases.
 
J

JustJim

Well-Known Member
I played with this a bit years ago, right after some friends and I pooled funds and bought a used Ransom Rest that came with one set of inserts (for a square butt K-frame).

I used the two closest-to-alike wadcutter moulds I had, but they weren't identical (close, but not identical), so it probably doesn't apply. Guns weren't identical either (four 6" K38 Target Masterpieces/Model 14, three 8 3/8" Model 14, seven K38 Combat Masterpieces/Model 15). Brass was one lot, primers were one lot, load was 2.9 gr W231.

Results were that while each revolver had a preference, neither bullet averaged better overall accuracy. But I had a lot of fun!
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
This subject came up some weeks ago, and it's been rolling around in my head ever since. That is the only reason I am commenting, mostly because I can't, and never could shoot good enough to test this theory. Here is my 2¢.
.
My brain sees that perfect edge of the bevel base to barrel wall and thinks that could prove to be better(more accurate) than a near perfect edge of a flat base bullet to barrel wall. When bullet leaves the barrel, the more perfect edge wins.
 
P

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I vote - "C"

No difference.

Now, with that out of the way. I hate bevel bases because I use a Lyman Lubersizer and bevel bases are a total PITA.

If I used a Star or if I powder coated, it likely would not matter to me.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I'm not the best shot and I don't have pistol sled. So you have that factor. However In my current loadings I have witnessed no difference. "C"
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
If you powder coat it's B. Otherwise I challenge anyone to prove a general difference in a variety of revolvers.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I don't have 10 45s , I do have access to 2 , 1 each 1917s ,and a Ruger in 45 ACP to go with the #130 and 45 200...... They're completely different but both work . No clue which shoots better .
 
Matt_G

Matt_G

Curmudgeon in training
RicinYakima said:
Col Harrison did that comparison in the NRA "Cast Bullets", I believe. Testing from a machine rest the H&G 50 and H&G 50 BB, there was not reliable difference.

C is correct.
Click to expand...
Bingo.

Ric, you made me break out my copy of Cast Bullets and read that article again.
It has been many moons since I last read it.
(Making Accurate .38 Handloads - originally published in the American Rifleman in March, 1967.)

The main difference Col. Harrison pointed out between the H&G 50BB and the plain base H&G 50, was that the bevel base design leaded the forcing cone of their test revolvers less than the plain base bullet.

Fun trivia - He quoted the cost of 1000 rounds of factory target wadcutter ammo @ $101.00
When was the last time you saw 50 round boxes of .38 Special wadcutter ammo for 5 bucks a box?

Of course, a hundred bucks in the spring of '67 was a lot of money...
I know that the mortgage payment my Dad had on the house at that time was around $80.00.
 
Georgia Boy

Georgia Boy

New Member
I have never seen a difference in accuracy; this was because I did not test rigorously enough. Fortunately John Zemanek answered this question in a 1993 article in Handloader magazine. Using two identical 148 grain Hensley and Gibbs #50 38 wadcutter molds, one plain base the other bevel base and identical target loads, John fired 2600 rounds in three revolvers using a Ransom Rest. Bevel base bullets gave groups averaging 18% smaller than plain base bullets in all three revolvers.

This is a significant difference, but it is 3/16 inch at 25 yards and 3/8 of an inch at 50 yards. When groups are averaging around 2 inches at 50 yards, any improvement this small is hard to detect with the normal variation in group size. It takes a lot of careful testing to show it. No wonder I was not able to see it comparing a few groups.

Does John’s work completely answer the question? No, the difference was small, the loads were light, and the guns were high quality. Different gun, and load will certainly affect the result. If you are competing, using match grade guns, and a tiny improvement is important, I would go with a bevel base.
For most shooting either base style is OK.
 
P

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I concur with Georgia Boy's post.

If I was seeking that last little improvement and a bevel base bullet would provide that improvement - perhaps I would go that route. But in the grand scheme of things, there's not enough advantage there to capitalize on,

With a Star lubersizer that can be adjusted to only apply lube to the grease groove, or tumble lube that doesn't matter where it goes - the bevel base probably outshines the plain base in terms of production and accuracy. HOWEVER - with an "in & out" type sizer, like a Lyman or RCBS - a bevel base bullet is a Royal PITA.
So without a significant improvement in accuracy (and I agree that 3/8" at 50 yards is not that significant) the annoyance of a bevel base is just not worth it.
 
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