BHN and accuracy
- Thread starter burbank.jung
- Start date
burbank.jung
Active Member
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
But are you starting to see the trend here? It's not Bhn, it's FIT!!! Static fit, as in sizing, seating, OAL, total cartridge run out, possible runout in the bullet alone, bullet balance, fit to bore, neck tension, crimp, fit to groove, alloy makeup, GC seating if one is used, etc, etc, etc. Dynamic fit, as in powder type and charge, case shape, seating depth, throat interference, bullet jump/freebore, alloy makeup, pressure peak, pressure curve, slump/no slump, obturation +/-, etc, etc, etc. Some variables affect both ends of fit, others don't. Fit is KING! The Bhn cult wants to believe that a simple number will outweigh all the other variables combined. WRONG! As I've told you before, I can take the same alloy and make it give you 3 very different Bhn readings, or 3 very different alloys and make them all give the same Bhn reading. Is it clicking yet? There's no "best" Bhn. Trying to do that is basically attacking the issue backwards. You take the Bhn your alloy has and work WITH it and juggle the other variables to find the best balance. Yes, you can blow a very soft alloy to pieces with too much pressure, you can also get the same result with a very hard alloy with a high Bhn.
If you aren't getting the idea yet, I dunno man. We've beat this horse into a bloody pulp the buzzards wouldn't touch.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Best way to find how/if BHN affects accuracy is to do the work. Cast up bullets from different alloys/BHN's. Make up ladder loads of minimum of 10 rounds each. Shoot, record data and report back. I've done it. Have looseleaf binders full of test targets, for each caliber, I load for.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
In his defense, he says he only gets to shoot a couple times a year so he wants the best chance with that limitation. There's just no way to do what he wants that I can think of. Cast may not be for him in the end.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
IIRC, Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual gives data in regards to bullet, alloy (BHN) and most accurate powder choice. Seek and you shall find..........at least a starting point. Every firearm is different, as well as shooters proficiency. Least we forget their conscientious to reloading practices. No gratification in copying someone else's work.
Perhaps but he is still seeking a mythical BHN number that doesn't exist. His limited range time would be far more fruitful if he would load ammo using the numerous tips and suggestions listed in these threads. Not a single one of which mentions seeking a specific BHN.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Agree Rick. I'd suggested making a lot of as near perfect as possible bullets with whatever alloy he has, sizing to whatever the barrel will allow and build up some ladder type loads with various powders in the medium range pressure wise. There's lots of stuff he could do to prep his loads for the best chance for when he does get to shoot, but the Bhn appears to be all he can see so far.
I remember going through the same thing!!!!
I remember going through the same thing!!!!
fiver
Well-Known Member
if he really want to learn something.
in a couple of limited trips he can easily do that without a bunch of BHN fussing and note taking.
make some bullets.
pistol or lever gun rounds are best, rifle will work too but you won't get the data you will from the others.
say 200 of them.
now the trick.
take those bullets and load them.
as many as you can.
start out with the fastest powder you have.
bulls-eye ,red-dot, 700-X
now move along to the next slower powder speed
unique, herco,
and then to stuff like 800-X and steel.
then 2400, #-9, or AA-4100
then back to h-110, 4227 etc.
if it's a rifle start with the faster powder, move to unique, go to 2400, 4198, 3031, 4064.
whatever it is make some notes, use a chronograph if you got one.
pay attention to the accuracy.
now look in your book at the predicted pressures and write it down next to the powder you used in your notes.
what you just done was gain about 5 years worth of experience in one day,,, if you take good notes and study them.
you eliminated all the variables of different BHN's, design changes ,or time differences in the alloy.
you'll also quickly learn many of your guns quirks, what your lube may or may not be doing for you, and other things like powder fouling affecting some variables in the barrel.
most importantly learn, take copious notes, push an occasional patch down the barrel [like at the end of every powder] and keep it with your notes.
look at the muzzle, feel the cases coming out of the gun, look at them are you getting any lead at the mouth.
in a couple of limited trips he can easily do that without a bunch of BHN fussing and note taking.
make some bullets.
pistol or lever gun rounds are best, rifle will work too but you won't get the data you will from the others.
say 200 of them.
now the trick.
take those bullets and load them.
as many as you can.
start out with the fastest powder you have.
bulls-eye ,red-dot, 700-X
now move along to the next slower powder speed
unique, herco,
and then to stuff like 800-X and steel.
then 2400, #-9, or AA-4100
then back to h-110, 4227 etc.
if it's a rifle start with the faster powder, move to unique, go to 2400, 4198, 3031, 4064.
whatever it is make some notes, use a chronograph if you got one.
pay attention to the accuracy.
now look in your book at the predicted pressures and write it down next to the powder you used in your notes.
what you just done was gain about 5 years worth of experience in one day,,, if you take good notes and study them.
you eliminated all the variables of different BHN's, design changes ,or time differences in the alloy.
you'll also quickly learn many of your guns quirks, what your lube may or may not be doing for you, and other things like powder fouling affecting some variables in the barrel.
most importantly learn, take copious notes, push an occasional patch down the barrel [like at the end of every powder] and keep it with your notes.
look at the muzzle, feel the cases coming out of the gun, look at them are you getting any lead at the mouth.
Ian
Notorious member
IIRC I recommended skipping the trouble and expense and for those couple of range trips a year, just buying a few boxes of premium factory jacketed ammunition. That's what I'd do myself in that situation.
I like to blast off a couple of model rockets occasionally. Sure, I could make my own fuel, engines, ignitors, and nozzles. I can and have made my own rockets from lightweight tubes I made from scratch, but that was when I had more time. right now I don't. I buy Estes stuff and enjoy shooting rockets that work without tons of research, investment in materials and chemicals, lots of R&D time, endless testing, re-engineering and retesting, etc. Sometimes it's the journey that's the point, sometimes it's the destination.
I like to blast off a couple of model rockets occasionally. Sure, I could make my own fuel, engines, ignitors, and nozzles. I can and have made my own rockets from lightweight tubes I made from scratch, but that was when I had more time. right now I don't. I buy Estes stuff and enjoy shooting rockets that work without tons of research, investment in materials and chemicals, lots of R&D time, endless testing, re-engineering and retesting, etc. Sometimes it's the journey that's the point, sometimes it's the destination.
burbank.jung
Active Member
I haven't made testloads comparing bhn yet. And, while I appreciate your advice, I don't take it as gospel until I have personally tried it. It is not because I disagree with you as much as I have to experience this firsthand myself. Yes, I don't shoot often but make the most of it. Yes I take notes. It's part of the fun. I have a very good 40cal load using .22lr lead and pellet lead. The ingots seem to be soft. I plan to cast some 38-148 WC next using WW, .22lr lead, pellet lead and harder range lead used for my 40 cast loads. Two hard hits with my hammer and the ingot breaks. I'll get around to shooting these after Thanksgiving.
burbank.jung
Active Member
I like testing things. This casting and making testloads takes a lot of time. I read a few books and watched a few videos about how to make a bow but finding accuracy loads and this casting hobby is taking up my time. Maybe I'll start working on that plum tree I cut down last year, next year.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
After Thanksgiving? Like a year from now?
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Okay, enough. Have at it guy. Bhn is the answer, you're right, we're wrong.
Shot some 30/30 loads the other day. Unique and red dot. Looks like in the 1400 fps zone. Red dot were 145gr PB of my dive weight alloy and PCd. Unique were 170 & 145 PB, both PCd, my normal rifle alloy. Probably need to clean the barrel as some of the RD loads I know I shaved some PC. Can't tell which are which but kind of looks like 2 or 3 groups. Thought I had the jug of 185 GCd, opps. Front bag and me on the back. guess I'll increase the RD load some.
View attachment 3030rd01062023.jpg
View attachment 3030rd01062023.jpg
JonB
Halcyon member
After reading through this, I am now curious (a little bit anyway)...if my 40 cal Hi Point will have varied accuracies at 25 yds with lubed cast bullets of 3 different alloys in the BHN extreme. near pure soft Lead, COWW, and Lino. I am quite sure Brad is correct in the second post, but I may just cast some and give it a test. Mostly, because it's been a long time since I brought the Hi Point to the range.
JonB
Halcyon member
Mostly, ya need thick skin when asking questions to strangers on the interwebs.
We are a pretty good crew here, but still, you should have thick skin, LOL
