Bismuth - and no, NOT bullets, but shot!

[oscarflytyer]

OK - didn't know where else to put this... Going to start reloading Bismuth shot for ducks/geese. Real question is around chokes. Any of you shooting Bismuth shot, general rule of thumb fair - same as lead shot chokes? And understand patterning the gun. But just looking for a general start point.

(Will be shooting 2 3/4" 12 ga with 1 1/4 oz Bismuth shot).

Thanx

 

[Ian]

I didn't know you could fit 1.25 ounces of Bismuth in a 2-3/4" shell, but I don't have any experience with it either.

 

[RBHarter]

I never shot any bismuth .
I do know in shot form it is harder than lead .
It will pattern tighter in lead chokes , a real .710 12 ga choked .690 is likely too much of a good thing .

 

[CZ93X62]

Fiver clued me in some months back--Ballistic Products Inc. carries "Hevi-Shot" in several formulations, some of this stuff exceeds the specific gravity of pure lead (11.2), into the 13.0 realm. BPI has a flyer and catalog covering the wizardry and sorcery, and be prepared for some sticker shock.

I have yet to gather any of the components for the Hevi-Shot, I am still dabbling with the 87.5/12/0.5 metal casting bit for the weird rifle calibers. Early info--steel/iron moulds are far better with this stuff than is aluminum. Heat retention matters with the Condor Cuddler Casting Compound, hereinafter copyrighted as "4C Metal".

You saw it first right here.

 

[oscarflytyer]

I didn't know you could fit 1.25 ounces of Bismuth in a 2-3/4" shell, but I don't have any experience with it either.

well... neither did I, but... Hodgdon has 1 1/4 AND 1 3/8 oz load data for both STS and AA hulls (and cpl others) for BISMUTH shot (assume that is the trick to getting the extra payload - all about density). Don't know, but jumped off the cliff and will find out!

 

[oscarflytyer]

I never shot any bismuth .
I do know in shot form it is harder than lead .
It will pattern tighter in lead chokes , a real .710 12 ga choked .690 is likely too much of a good thing .

I figure old school lead full for waterfowl, Mod for steel (SUCKS!) and Mod/IM/maybe full, depending on how the gun patterns, with Bismuth.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Fiver clued me in some months back--Ballistic Products Inc. carries "Hevi-Shot" in several formulations, some of this stuff exceeds the specific gravity of pure lead (11.2), into the 13.0 realm. BPI has a flyer and catalog covering the wizardry and sorcery, and be prepared for some sticker shock.

I have yet to gather any of the components for the Hevi-Shot, I am still dabbling with the 87.5/12/0.5 metal casting bit for the weird rifle calibers. Early info--steel/iron moulds are far better with this stuff than is aluminum. Heat retention matters with the Condor Cuddler Casting Compound, hereinafter copyrighted as "4C Metal".

You saw it first right here.

Honestly, BPI pisses me off royally! Their data is old, have to buy their manuals to work up loads with their stuff, etc. AND - if it ain't Cheddite or Fiochi hulls/primers - screw you! Been working on this for about 2-3 yrs. And ALWAYS fed up with them.

Then, the other day (desperate!), checked Hodgden site. WOW!!!! AA and STS hull data, Std Win/Claybuster wad, avail powder (Longshot) AND - WHAT I HAVE - Win 209 primers!

I bought the powder local, wads Amazon and Bismuth from Rotometals. Have the hulls. 1 1/4 oz #3.5 BS shot for ducks, and maybe 1 3/8 oz #1 Bismuth for geese, if we get the opportunity. And MUCH happier with "std" components vs all the specialty/proprietary BPI crap (AND - don't have to spend extra $15 on THEIR manual, just to find out their data is all their stuff, and out of stock! - yeah - NOT a BPI fan!)

{sorry... rant over!}

 

[fiver]

Oscar do yourself a favor and don't compare anything bismuth to anything lead.
the actual mass and volume of the pellets are much too far apart.
a lot of guys try to think they can just leave out the lead shot part of a recipe and sub in bismuth.
and you can do that and not blow anything up, but your efficiency level will drop by about 20-25%.

 

[fiver]

oh and I hear you on the BPI thing..
you gotta be a selective purchaser, reading Richard lee's reloading manual will help sort their chaff some better.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Oscar do yourself a favor and don't compare anything bismuth to anything lead.
the actual mass and volume of the pellets are much too far apart.
a lot of guys try to think they can just leave out the lead shot part of a recipe and sub in bismuth.
and you can do that and not blow anything up, but your efficiency level will drop by about 20-25%.

Oh, no sweat there! AND been the frustrating part - getting Bismuth SPECIFIC components! I found the very specific Bismuth load data/component list on Hodgden's site. AND with std components. All good there.

Only lead to bismuth comparison I am using is the density of bismuth is much closer to lead than steel (and much cleaner killing/used some factory bismuth loads). I hate steel. like throwing mud covered rocks imho...

 

[oscarflytyer]

damn Fiver, you know how to punch buttons! lol! Not a big Lee data fan either! It is a last resort for things like my 43 Spanish, and I still don't trust it...

 

[RBHarter]

I shot the heck out of a Steel Special BPS , 100% 30" patterns at 40 yd . Lead was more like a soft modified . The choke section was about 3.5" long .

A Brazilian OU that was a marked full mod but shot 30" at 30 and 22 yd ......yeah it's a double full with steel and a double soft modified with lead these days .

 

[fiver]

I learned how to work steel shot a long time ago and settled in some easy to assemble loads that worked out to 40-45 yds. or so.
then of course they quit making 800-X so I switched to Steel, then they changed the formulation on steel making it burn just a bit quicker.
siiigh I won't even go into MEC not making wads anymore, and how the SAM-1 wads weren't horrible except for the part where they don't hold as much shot.
probably nobody but me shoots 1 ounce of number-1's, or a mix of 3's topped with BB's through an improved cylinder though.... LOL

 

[CZ93X62]

I'll see what Hodgdon has to say about that 4C shotshell loading. BPI's arrogance comes through loud and clear, I ignore it with enthusiasm and depth and take from them what I need. SIG-Sauer is the same way--"From Germany, eh? 0-2 in world wars, too. Truly impressive." Arrogant BLEEPs.

 

[Ian]

Cee, Chute, Chovel, and Chut-up?

Drift alert.

Sig-Sauer, or Sig U.S.A.? There's a VERY good reason I avoid German automobiles as much as possible, and it has nothing to do with patriotism.

However, there's this. I finally figured out why I don't cotton to the 9mm Parabellum. The only base metric firearms I own are Swedish in all but manufacture (including the steel), they get a pass for certain reasons. The rest are 'Murican inventions. Yeah, I don't like the metric system, simple as that.

 

[CZ93X62]

Not quite. 4C = Condor Cuddler Casting Compound.

 

[Ian]

I keep forgetting to use purple. I saw your declaration yesterday, just poking fun.

 

[RBHarter]

1s and Bs in a CSD 118 with a styrofoam meat tray plug in the bottom 1-1/16 oz over a little 4756 .......... No more 4756 ..... I killed a honker at 45 yd straight up , snows 30-35 easy lots of ducks barely inside 50 yd . Many , many more over deks <35 yd . I shot Blue Dot , I liked it better than Steel and 800x even with the SAM 1 wads but it had a lot of flash which the 4756 didn't .


For a time the very same components I was loading were offered for sale for about 20¢ a box more than it cost me to load them . I was buying Kent for $65 a case and PMC later Blue Steel for as little $48 a case . It was costing me $5.40 a box to load them . I shot the Kent Fasteel in December and January and the cheap stuff from Columbus Day through Thanksgiving and another week or so .

Sure miss the 4756 ......

 

[oscarflytyer]

So here's the duck load I put together tonight:

1 ¼ oz Bismuth Load
Remington STS 2 ¾”
Win 209
Claybuster CB1138-12 (WAA12R)
28.0 gr Longshot
Rotometals Bismuth shot sz #3.5 (.145”)
1300 fps (9000 psi)

Thinking I will also put together a goose load that looks like this...

1 3/8 oz Bismuth Load
Remington STS 2 ¾”
Win 209
Claybuster CB1138-12 (WAA12R)
27.8 gr Longshot
Rotometals Bismuth shot sz #1
1275 fps (10800 psi)

The 2 3/4" STS closed up perfectly and looked great. And still a little room for the 1 3/8 load I believe too. If not, I will just go with 1 1/4 #1 for goose. Someone posted the exact duck load as their pet load. and that anything over 1300 fps blew out the pattern. So I stayed within those parameters. We shall see. Has to be better than the steel factory stuff. I hate it.

I know I will get a minimum of 2 duck hunts. AL lets veterans hunt the youth days, and their are two - an early and late day. And Son#3 and his buddy guide me on the hunts. A bonus now, is that Son#5 is out of the Army now/living in town too and he can go as well. Really looking fwd to it!

 

[fiver]

I you neeed just a little more compression [or shot] than that, a nice felt wad in the bottom of the shotcup helps lower pressure just a titch and also cushions the shot helping with breakage on the bottom row.

I'm a fan of using felt wads wherever I can in my hunting [heavy] loads.