Cast and the forgotten 243

[KHornet]

I have often wondered why the 243/6MM etc has all but disappeared from the cast loading manuals. Lyman no longer lists any molds in 6MM. Guess I am lucky to have an 85 gr Saeco, a double cav 245496, and a single cav 496 PB. Am just starting to work up loads for the PB, and started with 6 gr. of Bullseye, which is not where I want to be. Will try a little lower, and try tight group, and a couple others, looking for 1000-1200 fps for 50 yd shooting. 21 gr of Rx7 with the Saeco GC w/dac fill shoots tolerably well at 50, staying around an inch at 50 for 5 shots, and an inch and a half for 10. (10 to 12 K wind pretty much sustained, but fishtailing) The 496 over the same load does not near as well. Shot yesterday (unseasonably warm for Ne this time of year 52 degrees), but with CanRed lube, not known for good cold weather shooting. Will load some with LARS 2500 next go around which is supposed to be far better for cold weather.

Think the 243 got a bad rep with cast because of the short neck, but the 2 85 grainers that I have do not go below the neck when loaded, and I am careful to start them straight down. That, and like 224's, 6mm bullets have to be inspected closely, and weighed to exacts (after sizing/checking/lubing). Any how, my feeling has always been that all cartridges have a cast bullet accuracy potential. Not necessarily MOA maybe, but a potential that is satisfactory to the caster/shooter. Hasn't been all that long ago in my memory that I recall few rifles other than custom varmint rigs were capable of MOA. Well maybe it has been that long ago now that I think about it. Oh well, getting old just ain't for sissies.

 

[Ben]

Looks like you're making some good progress with the .243 Win.
Share some target photos soon , if you will ?

Ben

 

[freebullet]

I don't own a 243. I researched & debated it. I went with 308 instead.

I must have just missed you at the gun club yesterday. I went around 1 to do some inline muzzleloader testing with cast.

I have a small bag of range pick ups in 243 that your welcome to Khornet. I also have a pill bottle part full of brass shavings for you.

 

[KHornet]

Ben, need another session with Brad before I start posting pics. I need to have him write down step by step procedure. Ya-I am old and not tech oriented!

Freebullet, sorry I missed you yesterday. I left about 2:00. I will be glad to take the 243's and the brass shavings when we can get together.

 

[Brad]

Great, another session as tech support.

You owe me Ben!

 

[Ian]

.243 Winchester presents several challenges. It's under-bore, typically has a very short throat, and a huge amount of loaded chamber neck clearance. I'd consider making brass out of .308 and paper patching.

 

[Maven]

"Think the 243 got a bad rep with cast because of the short neck...." ...KHornet

That may be true, KHornet, but long ago Jim Carmichael in "Handloader" demonstrated that CB's (I think #245496) seated as short as 2.29" OAL were as accurate as those seated [much] longer. (I tried it and he was correct.) My .243Win. (Ruger #1, 26" bbl.) is very accurate with #245496 (sized to .244") less so with other CB designs, e.g. bore riders* or the HP version of -496.

*At one time I owned both the Lyman 95gr. and RCBS ~105gr. bore riders, but as the Lyman's nose was too small, got poor shooting @ 100yd. OTOH, the RCBS grouped well at the same distance exactly once and I could never duplicate it. Sold both moulds and decided to stick with -496 and wasn't sorry I did.

 

[Maven]

"I'd consider making brass out of .308 and paper patching." ...Ian

I've done the first part, but not the second. After forming -> .243Win., I use a Forster .243Win. neck reamer (in a Forster case trimmer) to thin the thickened necks, FL size again, then anneal the neck - shoulder area. Thus far, case life has been good and accuracy indistinguishable from factory .243Win. brass. Btw, .30-06 brass, which needs to be trimmed down quite a bit, at least will give you the correct case length. Reforming either caliber isn't something I do often, but rather to see if it can be done, especially when I come into .308 Match brass.

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
Another caliber .243 shooter here.
Last time up north there the .243 was on my shoot list but ran out of time. Hope to get to it this next time up. Have bullets cast and lubed but still waiting in storage.
Mine is a 788 Rem bought down in Chattanooga in 1978. Been one fine varmit rifle. I will be reading this as you get the bugs worked out.
Mike in Peru

 

[Missionary]

"Think the 243 got a bad rep with cast because of the short neck...." ...KHornet

That may be true, KHornet, but long ago Jim Carmichael in "Handloader" demonstrated that CB's (I think #245496) seated as short as 2.29" OAL were as accurate as those seated [much] longer. (I tried it and he was correct.) My .243Win. (Ruger #1, 26" bbl.) is very accurate with #245496 (sized to .244") less so with other CB designs, e.g. bore riders* or the HP version of -496.

*At one time I owned both the Lyman 95gr. and RCBS ~105gr. bore riders, but as the Lyman's nose was too small, got poor shooting @ 100yd. OTOH, the RCBS grouped well at the same distance exactly once and I could never duplicate it. Sold both moulds and decided to stick with -496 and wasn't sorry I did.

This is what I have seen with all the "Louvern" (spelling ?) designs I have bought. They shoot very well. Maybe will not stand max velocities but within the design parameters do a stellar job on paper and soft skin critters.
Mike in Peru

 

[Ian]

"I'd consider making brass out of .308 and paper patching." ...Ian

I've done the first part, but not the second. After forming -> .243Win., I use a Forster .243Win. neck reamer (in a Forster case trimmer) to thin the thickened necks, FL size again, then anneal the neck - shoulder area. Thus far, case life has been good and accuracy indistinguishable from factory .243Win. brass. Btw, .30-06 brass, which needs to be trimmed down quite a bit, at least will give you the correct case length. Reforming either caliber isn't something I do often, but rather to see if it can be done, especially when I come into .308 Match brass.

Why did you ream the necks? Having thicker necks is the whole point of using .308 brass, which better keeps the bullet base from drifting off bore centerline at launch. As long as you have 1-2 thousandths of loaded chamber neck clearance, you might not even need to outside turn them unless they have a really bad thick spot.

 

[KHornet]

Probably 35 or more years ago, I made about 100 243 cases out of military 308. Still have probably 25 of them. Back then I owned a pre 64 mod 70, and shot these cases in same. About 20 yrs years ago I traded for a 77 Ruger 243, lite bbl, and about 12 or 14 yrs ago, I bought a heavy bbl Sav 243. All of these rifles have shot mil reforms. Sold the M70 a couple of years ago. Have shot the Sav w/jacketed on pdogs at ranges in excess of 600 yds. And did likewise with the M-70 years ago in Pa. Needless to say, am kind of fond of the ctg.

At one time years back, I owned the Lyman 95 grainer, and nothing I had shot them worth diddlysquat , no matter what I put behind them. As a result of that I did not think of shooting cast in 243 until a fwq years ago when I got a single and a double 496, and a 3 Cav (Saeco I think). Think I still have that 95 mold however. Ben got me playing with PB bullets, and Brad ungaschecked (my word) a single cav 496 that I have some hopes for once I find the right powder(s) for 50 yd shooting. Have not tried seating short, and usually seat just shy of lands. May try seating short later on. That said, initial testing with the Saeco 85 over Rx7 shows me potential, and will search for most accurate loading with it.

I will be satisfied if I can stay under 2" at 100 for 5 rounds w/cast, with once in awhile getting one close to 1". The savage is capable of under 3/4" at 100 w/jacketed. I am a firm believer in 5 shot group minimums, and once I get an accurate load, I will always shoot a couple of 10 shot groups like the old timers did in hopes of having them all under 3". For me, that is realistic accuracy. We have a number of powders and lubes today that were not around, not that long ago, and those might make a big difference. In the meanwhile, I am going to try the 496 Louaven (sp) with just two coats of BLL for the PB's, and 3 coats, for the GC's. With cold weather coming on soon, will probably have to run a batch with the green lube I got from Brad for the Saecos.

 

[Maven]

Why did you ream the necks? Having thicker necks is the whole point of using .308 brass, which better keeps the bullet base from drifting off bore centerline at launch. As long as you have 1-2 thousandths of loaded chamber neck clearance, you might not even need to outside turn them unless they have a really bad thick spot.

Ian, they're a bit too thick for my chamber if I don't inside ream them. Once reamed, however, accuracy is indistinguishable from that of "real" .243Win. brass.

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
Had the same problem using down sized 308 in my 788. Chamber was to tight to chamber a seated bullet in one of those cases.
Mike in Peru

 

[JWFilips]

Hum ...I'm having no problem taming the "beast"! Maybe because I'm just learning:

 

[Missionary]

Well those look good enough to pop ground hogs.
If your rifle will shoot like that with "squeezed" 308's and the cases not need neck reamed then you have one fat neck area.
Have a 44-40 1892 that I went in the opposite direction with. Opened up 38-40 brass so I can chamber a .434+ bullet. The lead in that SRC is badly worn and could seat a .436 but I will be happy with it as is for now.
Mike in Peru

 

[JWFilips]

I made the mistake of sizing & blowing out a bunch of 308 sized .243s The stupidly: I turned the necks! No reason! The fat necks would have centered the cartridges! Missed out on that!
As for popping ......I wouldn't worry about ground hog pie at 200 yds
Once I understood the parameters of the 243 with cast everything fell in place ...but before that it was all hell!

 

[Maven]

Nice targets, JWF. Were they shot @ 100 yd.?

 

[JWFilips]

Sorry But No : 50yds is my new 100! Don't have to walk as far!

 

[KHornet]

Great targets Jim. Experience wise, you are way ahead of me 243 wise. Would be delighted to come close to your groupings. 50 yds is my new 100 for PB bullets, cause I don't any more appreciate the 100 yd walk than Jim. However will be working with GC's at 100 as soon as I can get the best accuracy load down pat at 50.