Distance shooting with cast bullets...

[Full.lead.taco]

I've been really curious about distance shooting with cast bullets lately. I was wondering if any of you had shot cast bullets (accurately) out a ways (farther than 400 yards). My questions:

How far have you taken cast bullets out to?
What cartridge and firearm did you do it with?
What bullet types/coatings did you use (PC, PP, GC, Heat Treated, etc)
What type of propellant, ie: BP, smokeless rifle, smokeless pistol, etc...
What muzzle velocity?

A few observations of my own so far. Supersonic ammo that drops below the speed of sound before reaching the target seems to lose accuracy (I assume when it transitions from super to sub). Subsonic ammo, at least with the bigger bullets I've tried (500 gr .458 bullets) arc like crazy, but can stay stable and have a consistent trajectory (ie: you can lob them consistently and accurately as long as you have sights that can adjust for extreme vertical drop like ladder style sights). So it seems like you either have to lob subsonic ammo with rainbow trajectories, or you have to get the bullets moving fast enough that they stay supersonic until they hit the target. Or you have to find a bullet that remains stable after the transition from super to sub--and transitions well (and consistently)

I've had good luck so far with cast bullets with the 45-70 cartridge and have take them out to 475 yards with consistent hits on steel plates. I am looking for any of your experience or observations if you have taken cast bullets out past 400 yards.

Thoughts?

 

[Brad]

They do shoot BPCR with cast at 1000 yards. Heavy bullets help reduce wind drift.

I haven't really tested cast much past 100 on paper.

 

[4060MAY]

Depends on what the definition of accuracy

I have shot a No.3 Ruger 30-40Krag out to 500M, mostly for Steel Rams, about 2MOA high,
314299/Varget, Muzzle Vel has to be at least 2000FPS to knock the rams down
John Kort had the Vel. and dwell time/alloy worked out for the best results
300BLK on the forum has shot 1000yds successfully, I have never tried it with my Ruger, the recoil is harsh, holding a 20X scope doesn't help
I have shot BPCR with a 40 cal,1225MV 400gr bullet, and a 38 cal 1325MV 340gr bullet with good results, at 1000Yds
wind drift with the 40 cal was significant....I was there when one of the shooters hit the Buffalo at Ridgway, 13times in a row OffHand, with a 45-70 Sharps the Buffalo at that time was 900+ yards

most of the Hi-power cast bullet Silhouette I have shot, I used a BHN of 15-18, for 200-300M the vel is 1750, w/RCBS 30-180-SP, the longer ranges 385-500M, 314299 the Vel is about 1980, never Chrono'd it, lube has been LBT blue and Car Red. bullets too hard explode on the animal and there isn't sufficient well time for the bullet to knock it over
YMMV

 

[Full.lead.taco]

Good info, thank you very much. Ha ha, I had to reread part of your post, for a minute I thought you were saying someone had shot a 300blk rifle out to 1000 yards but the recoil was harsh. I was wondering what kind of load could reach 1k and have harsh recoil in the mild 300blk cartridge. After rereading I saw that you were talking about the forum user "300BLK"

Depends on what the definition of accuracy
I have shot a No.3 Ruger 30-40Krag out to 500M, mostly for Steel Rams, about 2MOA high,
314299/Varget, Muzzle Vel has to be at least 2000FPS to knock the rams down
John Kort had the Vel. and dwell time/alloy worked out for the best results
300BLK on the forum has shot 1000yds successfully, I have never tried it with my Ruger, the recoil is harsh, holding a 20X scope doesn't help
I have shot BPCR with a 40 cal,1225MV 400gr bullet, and a 38 cal 1325MV 340gr bullet with good results, at 1000Yds
wind drift with the 40 cal was significant....I was there when one of the shooters hit the Buffalo at Ridgway, 13times in a row OffHand, with a 45-70 Sharps the Buffalo at that time was 900+ yards

most of the Hi-power cast bullet Silhouette I have shot, I used a BHN of 15-18, for 200-300M the vel is 1750, w/RCBS 30-180-SP, the longer ranges 385-500M, 314299 the Vel is about 1980, never Chrono'd it, lube has been LBT blue and Car Red. bullets too hard explode on the animal and there isn't sufficient well time for the bullet to knock it over
YMMV

 

[Full.lead.taco]

Also, I've heard that paper patching allows you to shoot at almost FMJ velocities. I am thinking of maybe trying some at a future date in some of my milsurps to see how accurate they can be at higher velocities with the pp.

 

[RBHarter]

I shot a fluke load in a 264WM with a PP 260-120 NOE I put 7-10 on an 18" plate at 400 yds with 12 gr of Unique just shy of 1300 fps .

Another that worked out was a 27-135 RCBS PP in a 7×6.8 groups were about 1.2" @100 making 3/5 hits on 18×24 steel at 417 yd .

I shot some 200 gr bullets similar in shape to the 311-230 NOE but at 200gr .
At 1800 fps hits were easy out to known ranges of 350 yds . Random targets of opportunity to a guesstimated 500/550 were easy to walk into . Real accuracy with any of the above wouldn't be too hard to achieve I don't think . Most of the shooting was done in field positions rather than a bench .

 

[Ian]

I've run PP faster than jacketed a few times, there are some tricks involved but it's amazing what can be done.

 

[Chris]

I've been wanting to play with paper patching. I bought the book linked below by Paul Matthews (also authored "Forty Years with the .45/70") and it is nicely done and will be helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/Paper-Jacket...814&sr=1-1&keywords=the+paper+jacket+matthews

 

[Ian]

This may help, too: http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/the-basement-articles-the-paper-jacket.847/

 

[KHornet]

I will be very interested in following this thread as it expands. Have little interest
in paper patched bullets, but am interested in shooting heavy 30 cal cast at distances
out to beyond 200 yds. How far beyond 200 yds, I am not sure, but maybe to 400
or so.

Paul

 

[Chris]

This may help, too: http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/the-basement-articles-the-paper-jacket.847/

Thank you. It was right there in plain sight but I never saw it.

 

[S Mac]

I've offered before, if anyone wants a few sheets of green bar printer paper to try I have most of a box, be glad to send some. Its a favorite of many smokeless paper patchers.

 

[Chris]

I've offered before, if anyone wants a few sheets of green bar printer paper to try I have most of a box, be glad to send some. Its a favorite of many smokeless paper patchers.

I appreciate your offer and would try a few sheets. I'll send a PM.

 

[4060MAY]

Khornet and all
We usually have a Cast Bullet Silhouette match on the second weekend of June, 2018 dates have not been set yet
want to shoot to 1000yds, Ridgway Rifle Club, Ridgway PA
Range is usually open to competitors on the Friday before the match for practice and sometimes a 20 shot warm up match, Chickens 200M, Pigs 300M, Turkeys 385M, Rams 500M
Full match is 60 shots, Sat any position, Sunday all OH
ridgwayrifleclub.com, or on facebook
when I get the 2018 flier I will post it

 

[Full.lead.taco]

Thanks everyone for all the good info.

 

[John]

At the Nevada Cast Bullet Shoot one of the events has traditionally been a 417 yard shoot open to iron sighted rifles with any positions except bench or prone. My son won a couple of times with my 30-06 Mauser 98 shooting 315 Saeco and a near case full of WC860 with a 3 gr 3031 kicker. My eyes are lucky to see the 12" x18" iron slab. I have seen two shoot offs in the 4 years I have attended. Both were perfect 5 for 5 and one took two overage shots, one only took one. Lowest winning score I saw was 4 out of 5 possible.
It can be done with practice. I ran out of front sight with a receiver sight, 311284 and 16 gr of 2400. It was accurate enough I just could not repeat my aim point.
Why 417 yards? It as the end of the shooting lane.

 

[KHornet]

Good thread John, and like the last sentence.

Paul

 

[fiver]

your normal cast loads will reach 400 yds no problem.
I shoot my 1917 at 300 yds [off the bench only] and can hit the 10" plate down there no problems.
the smaller square swingers are way harder to hit and I have to wait until summer so the sun will light them up to even see them.
our range faces south and there is a 30-35' foot tall berm/hill right behind them that keeps them in the shade all winter.

 

[Eutectic]

We shoot cast in handguns (usually revolvers) out to 500 yards all the time. Same spot ol' Elmer Keith used in fact that he referred to as "The BLM Range" in his writings. I've shot .44 Magnum with 429421 at our 1000 yard range in the same vicinity. We put a large 42" white box halfway up the mountain (we call it a hill) for an aiming point. The .44 will surprise you at that range. I've shot my Savage 340 .30-30 at the same 1000 yards with 31141 and almost broke a balloon several times. (We used 9" diameter balloons taped to metal fence posts) Long range will tell you if your cast bullets have voids inside. I've shot the .45-70 W A Y O U T. 1000 or more..... Far enough flight time was several seconds! I wouldn't want someone shooting that ol' gal with cast bullets at me out there..... especially if they could dope the range!
I read in Whelen's book "The American Rifle" (1918) where he said the .38-40 became inaccurate after about 150 yards. Shook me up some as I was right in the midst of load development with my Model 92 for my Canadian elk hunt. It kept gnawing on me too.... So when I was happy with my load I tried them at 500 yards..... These were cast soft (8.5 bhn) and gaschecked with checks I made. In the case of my .38-40 and my loads Townsend Whelen was wrong!

Pete

 

[fiver]

I think a lot of people were wrong about the 38-40 round.
IMO the only mistake they made with it was in not making it a 38-41.