Factory JHP lead BHN

[Rockydoc]

Like Bret, and probably many others, I have been through this BHN obsession as well. Knowing the BHN hasn’t made any of my bullets more accurate.
If you learn how to make a bullet fit your gun you may never need to know the BHN of those bullets.

You will never know if ANYTHING you have done has worked until after shooting the bullets and let the target tell you what is working.

 

[358156 hp]

i make mine simple...

i have
600-700 lbs "pure" lead (water service lines) for muzzleloaders
15-20 lbs COWW (which i luv, but i can no find...waaaaaaa!!!!!!)
500 or so lbs of Rotometals Lyman #2 ( i bought it cheaply at an auction)
10-15 lbs Rotometals tin because it was the way i was taught. COWW or Lyman #2 with a skosh of tin

i use 250r penta hp with 40 lead: 1 tin in my 44 special. i use Lyman #2 and a skosh of tin for everything else.

i never did a hardness test.

If it performs to your satisfaction, further information is unnecessary.

 

[Brad]

If it performs to your satisfaction, further information is unnecessary.

Yes!

I don’t care what other say or think- if it works for me then I keep doing it.

99.99% of my shooting is of a nature where alloy composition doesn’t matter as long as it works. If I was into HP bullets or HB bullets it would matter but a swc just doesn’t care that much.

 

[fiver]

i went through the BHN pressure thing Richard LEE wrote.
i still have a pressure/velocity/BHN chart i went through and wrote up [based on 4895 for my 308 pinned to the wall in the reloading room.
it was/is actually very good at predicting velocities.

i used it when i was [siiigh] doing some RPM testing, i simply ended up burning down a Jug of 4895 only to prove that 1-3 alloy and 4-6 alloy had the same upper limit of accuracy at the same amount of pressure.
at the more accurate end of things i found the harder alloy did shoot more accurately.
now to quantify that, the more stuff alloy was sized with the same size die,,,,,, except for the looong nose rider portion,,, it took the rifling better and shot better groups.

but then again so would 4895 with a filler versus 2400.
the plain alloy bullets and 2400 shot well enough to put a couple hundred together and go shoot them [shrug] all day, hand them to the kids and let them have at it, or just have fun making grey smoke on the black rocks up and down the canyon.

the 4895/filler/harder alloy bullets shot more consistent smaller groups,,, but took like a week to assemble.

i know which ones i'd want with me if i was trying for 1/2" groups, and which ones were good-nuff.

 

[Ian]

A 13 bhn Barlow bullet sized .310 X .301" and shot at 1800 fps from a 10-twist .30-caliber barrel happens to coincide with a LOT of pet accuracy theories, pick one.

I've also pushed nearly a quarter-million RPM with 13-bhn bullets, pushed the same alloy to over 50,000 PSI, and held 1.5 MOA all day long in both rifles, so there's that. I can't shoot a handgun well enough to tell much difference in alloy unless it has a scope and a bench attached to it.

It ain't how you do it, it's the way you do it.

If I only took a gun out to the range once or twice a year I'd either shoot factory ammo or load commercial plated or jacketed bullets.

 

[burbank.jung]

Burbank, What are you shooting?(gun, cartridge, bullet, etc.). What are you shooting at?(targets, animals, etc.). What is your desired velocity? What do you want your bullet to do when it gets to the target?

I've been currently testing the following loads and start as soon as the range opens. My T99 has a number of testloads including an OCR test using IMR4350 and 174gr FMJBT and RN Hornady's and 185gr Lee cast bullets. Because this is a 100-200-300 yard range, there can be a long wait time between cease fires. My cast bullet groups are only good to 50 yards now. Most of my handgun testloads are for 9mm using Lee 9-122TC and MP 125 HP. I found a decent load using 3.6 BE for the 122TC and am working up a load for the 125HP using AA5. The 40 S&W loads include the Lee 170TC and MP200HP. I have decent results with initial tests and now have test loads of varying seating depth. The most common 38 Spcl loads I shoot are the Lee 148WC and some other cast Lee bullets. My last 38 Special testloads used my accuracy loads of 2.8gr BE with a seating depth flush to the case mouth and another being 3.1gr BE with case mouth at the second lube groove. With the same batch of lead cast wadcutters, my next testloads are with an accuracy load of 2.8grBE with the WC flush to the case mouth in sets of different brands of various headstamps. I am wondering if one case will lead to a more accurate load based on neck tension. I'm not shooting .357 tesloads this time because I want to buy 2400 and use it with the 125gr MP mold cast hp. I already have a load using the Lee 160gr RFN and two JHPs. Last is the .45. I want to cast Lee 200 SWC bullets with lead core scrap bullet lead using my accuracy load of 3.6gr BE and comparing accuracy between loads using Remington and Winchester brass. I'm also testing MP 200gr HP bullets. The hex pin bullets are in the Speer cases, the round pins in the Federal brass and the S&B using the RFN cast bullets. I have an accuracy load for it now of 4.6gr BE along with a seating depth of 1.190" that printed the best group with my last lead bullet batch. I already found a good load using 5gr BE for a Lee 225gr RN seated at 1.270" but this time comparing accuracy between loads using Remington and another with Winchester brass. For handguns, I shoot target. Lead bullets are banned in CA but I will cast hunting bullets for the T99 anyway for fun. For the future, I have ingots of RWS lead pellet ingots, .22lr lead ingots, and FMJ lead core ingots. I plan to cast hollow points with these (plus tin) to discover which expands best. Of all the testloads I bring to the range, I usually bring home unfired testloads. Sometimes I'm shooting 8 targets in a session and then tear them down and quickly place new targets (for the 18 yard pistol range). After the range closes, I start shoveling bullets into bags until dusk. Then I drive home happy. Here are some of my targets. The 40 cal used .22lr bullet lead. I plan to retest the 148wc loads using jhp lead cores in the future. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights. I like experimenting and learning by sharing what we know from casual conversations and not putting down anyone.

 

[Bret4207]

I wasn't trying to "put you down". I was trying to help you see Bhn isn't the answer you think it is. Your "accuracy load" will change with any change you make, IOW- what was the most accurate load with one bullet in one brand of brass/primer with one load may well be a dog with other components. Every time you change seating depth, you change pressure which changes fit. Changing the alloy changes fit. Changing primer and powder changes fit. Neck tension changes = fit changes.

Fit is king.

 

[fiver]

i'd be pretty happy with those groups.
i'm not a great handgun shooter, i'm pretty much a one bullet [one as in one good trigger pull] and done with them type.

 

[burbank.jung]

I wasn't trying to "put you down". I was trying to help you see Bhn isn't the answer you think it is. Your "accuracy load" will change with any change you make, IOW- what was the most accurate load with one bullet in one brand of brass/primer with one load may well be a dog with other components. Every time you change seating depth, you change pressure which changes fit. Changing the alloy changes fit. Changing primer and powder changes fit. Neck tension changes = fit changes.

Fit is king.

Well thanks Bret. I mistook your humor as being snotty. I'm thankful you responded to my post along with everyone else. My last casts were those pictured. The weight was very consistent compared to my first casts. I learned to bring my molds up to temperature, maintain it with a hotplate, and spiral cast my bullets; all owed to guys like you that are on these forums. Thank you so much. I hope with my future posts and discoveries I can help a newer caster in some way in the future.

 

[burbank.jung]

i'd be pretty happy with those groups.
i'm not a great handgun shooter, i'm pretty much a one bullet [one as in one good trigger pull] and done with them type.

I'm not a good handgun shooter either. I use a sandbag, bench, and chair to steady my aim. Even by carefully squezzing off my shot, I get this group. Yet, by knowing the best groups my loads can print, any group that is larger is MY fault.

 

[RicinYakima]

I'm not a good handgun shooter either. I use a sandbag, bench, and chair to steady my aim. Even by carefully squezzing off my shot, I get this group. Yet, by knowing the best groups my loads can print, any group that is larger is MY fault.

Handgun shooting is the hardest skill in all of shooting. There is a reason that the winners of handgun matches at Camp Perry are almost always in their 40's and 50's with 20+ years experience.

 

[Bret4207]

Well thanks Bret. I mistook your humor as being snotty. I'm thankful you responded to my post along with everyone else. My last casts were those pictured. The weight was very consistent compared to my first casts. I learned to bring my molds up to temperature, maintain it with a hotplate, and spiral cast my bullets; all owed to guys like you that are on these forums. Thank you so much. I hope with my future posts and discoveries I can help a newer caster in some way in the future.

There was no humor in any of my posts, but okay.

What is "Spiral casting" and why do you need a hotplate to maintain mould temp?

 

[Bret4207]

Suggest you read through this. https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/fit-is-king-a-practical-journey.8922/

 

[RBHarter]

Translation software . I expect he means swirl through the sprue plate .
I've had a couple of moulds that needed extra heat just to stay hot enough to cast , 225-37 NOE comes to mind right off the 62 gr sister isn't a lot better in 5 cav.

 

[Ian]

Swirl pour or spiral pour where you induce a vortex inside the cavity by pointing the stream at a slight angle and at the edge of the sprue hole. Gary (Onandaga) is the first one I remember mentioning it fifteen years ago on the other sites. Great technique for bottom pouring because it controls the turbulence from a narrow, high pressure bottom pour stream in a way that encourages the slag to pull to the center of the bullet cavity and flow up and out of the sprue hole. Also helpful for filling out recalcitrant driving bands in moulds with inadequate venting.

 

[todd]

(i'll just go back and use my Coleman stove, cast pot, molds and dipper)

 

[Bret4207]

Translation software . I expect he means swirl through the sprue plate .
I've had a couple of moulds that needed extra heat just to stay hot enough to cast , 225-37 NOE comes to mind right off the 62 gr sister isn't a lot better in 5 cav.

It says he's from California. Don't they speak 'Murican there?

 

[Bret4207]

View attachment 30463

(i'll just go back and use my Coleman stove, cast pot, molds and dipper)

I' m right there with ya.

 

[JustJim]

A while back--probably 20 years--a guy on the CB-L asked if anyone had some RCBS 35-200FNs he could use for setting up some dummy rounds. I pulled 50 or so culls and mailed them off to him.

In due time got a note back thanking me and asking how these were culls as the weight variation was plus-or-minus .2gr? I told him they were cast while I was getting the mould up to temp, working out my rhythm for that session, etc--the keepers come later in the session and are normally within -.1gr to +.1gr. When he asked, I explained how I cast them: equipment, alloy, fluxes, temps (relative to ambient), mould prep, casting speed, technique, where to aim the lead stream, size of sprue hole, etc.

He and some buddies he'd been sharing the emails with got rather vocal, saying I must be a "damn liar" because you can't cast to those tolerances with a bottom-pour pot. They undertook a crusade to drive me off the CB-L and out of a couple forums; when I later joined over at that other place, they popped up again.

You can cast good bullets with a lead pot and dipper, or with a bottom pour pot, or even over a campfire. Each approach requires a different methodology--different "tricks"--and time spent learning how to do it all. I've never seen any convincing evidence that one approach in the hands of a skilled practitioner is any better than another, but it seems that someone who gets really excellent results with one method isn't going to take the time to learn to get the same results with the other.

 

[Ian]

One of "Gear's Rules" states that just because someone else can do it doesn't mean that you can. See my signature line.

BTW, I can't think of a group I've ever posted on the internet where the bullets were cast with a ladle. I use a ladle sometimes, but not for high-production bullets that I typically cast. Also, my bottom pour furnace of choice is the much-maligned Lee pro 4-20. Again, see my signature line.