First cast loads in the 308

[Michael]

I have more faith in you than that.

31-155: Play with your seating depth, I almost always start at 0.030 into the lands and back off from there 0.010 at a time.

311440: Come up another 0.5grs, 1.0grs, and 1.5grs.

Even this were an '06 or something else, the suggestion would be the same.

Report back.

One other tid bit. This is what works for me. When I shoot at a round bull/target with a scope and try to hold center, I find myself all over the place. So what I have been doing for number of years hold the cross hairs such that the bull is resting in corner where the horizontal and vertical crosshairs meet. The vertical will be along ether the right or left edge of the bull and the horizontal will lay along the bottom edge of the bull. This helps me reduce my wiggling.

 

[fiver]

the Miha bullet isn't even close to the rcbs 180.
the 180 is just a longer 150 FN.
the Miha is kind of like the RCBS silhouette bullet, but the front drive band has been modified to be very similar to the Hunter Silhouette bullet Bob designed shheeez 15years ago.
i think NOE made that one.


Hey Josh.
try your 140gr. bullet.
it's shape is a decent one for the 308 throat.

 

[Josh]

the Miha bullet isn't even close to the rcbs 180.
the 180 is just a longer 150 FN.
the Miha is kind of like the RCBS silhouette bullet, but the front drive band has been modified to be very similar to the Hunter Silhouette bullet Bob designed shheeez 15years ago.
i think NOE made that one.


Hey Josh.
try your 140gr. bullet.
it's shape is a decent one for the 308 throat.

Yeah, his 180 gr Silhouette and the RCBS 30 180 got me confused but once I saw the picture I had a *duh* moment. I'm debating on ordering that 180 Silhouette, I need another mould like an extra hole in the head, but it would work so well in almost every 30 cal I've got.

I was actually going to shoot my 144 gr Blk bullet, but didn't have any cast up and honestly had little time to get it done. It's on the short list, but as of now I've got to get more of that 155W cast and loaded up.

 

[fiver]

unless i find a box of them in the gun room during the great cast bullet clean up of 23, i'll have to put that mold on the list too.
i don't know how i have so many damn bullets, but none at the same time.
i keep looking for stuff i know i made a bunch of them at some point, but don't remember shooting more than 1-200 of them.
they gotta be here somewhere, i only have like 50-60 30 cal gas checks left.

 

[Josh]

I have more faith in you than that.

31-155: Play with your seating depth, I almost always start at 0.030 into the lands and back off from there 0.010 at a time.

311440: Come up another 0.5grs, 1.0grs, and 1.5grs.

Even this were an '06 or something else, the suggestion would be the same.

Report back.

One other tid bit. This is what works for me. When I shoot at a round bull/target with a scope and try to hold center, I find myself all over the place. So what I have been doing for number of years hold the cross hairs such that the bull is resting in corner where the horizontal and vertical crosshairs meet. The vertical will be along ether the right or left edge of the bull and the horizontal will lay along the bottom edge of the bull. This helps me reduce my wiggling.

The 31-155W is seated a little deep, I'll try it with about 0.010" jump and see where we're at, honestly I'm pretty happy with the load as it sits. I'll probably get better results by sorting the bullets, these were bulk cast and given a cursory inspection.

I do like the idea of holding on the target, I'll try that next time and see how it goes. I've got another bullet I designed to try once I cast it up.

 

[Josh]

unless i find a box of them in the gun room during the great cast bullet clean up of 23, i'll have to put that mold on the list too.
i don't know how i have so many damn bullets, but none at the same time.
i keep looking for stuff i know i made a bunch of them at some point, but don't remember shooting more than 1-200 of them.
they gotta be here somewhere, i only have like 50-60 30 cal gas checks left.

I cleaned and reorganized my entire room because I couldn't find a T/C Contender forend screw I dropped. I think I might have a few of that bullet sitting around, sadly I don't even know where they came from.

I've organized, sized, annealed and cleaned about 200 lb of brass and found 1,000 jacketed bullets I didn't know I had. Who knew I was a hoarder?

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I will note that the Ruger M77 platform is generally reported to be about a 2 M.O.A. rifle.

I previously helped a co-worker with some load development for a M77 chambered in 308, and even with our best efforts, about 1.5” groups at 100 yards was the floor. That was with 165 grain jacketed bullets and IMR-4895 powder. That rifle had a barrel that was a bit longer than the Gunsite model but still essentially the same action. It was a very consistent rifle year after year. Other folks with M77 rifles chambered for 30 caliber cartridges reported 2” -3” groups at 100 yards were the norm. The torque on the front action screw is commonly reported to be a critical factor in accuracy with that platform. I can’t speak to that directly, but it makes sense given the design of the stock/action.

I’m sure there are exceptions and outliers but the M77 seems to be a solid rifle regardless of the chambering. Maybe not one known for spectacular “out of the box” accuracy but 2 – 3 M.O.A isn’t horrible.

 

[fiver]

if any of my Rugers shot 2 or 3 MOA someone else would own it after they found it in the parking lot.
where i threw it,,, before running it over on my way home.

my Tang safety will do under an Inch with corelocks.
the boat paddle in 308 [AKA the JINX rifle] will do it with either cast or Jacketed.
the 25-06 will do 2"s at 300yds with it's hunting load.
now the 358,, that one is barely under 2"s, but mostly because the recoil with the 250's is right at the obnoxious level, not gonna shoot that one 600yds. anyway.

inaccurate?
my 700,, now we got WTH levels of not accurate.

 

[Michael]

I am with fiver on this, M77s have never let me down, can't say that a M70 or 700 shoots better or any worse. Rifles are akin to women, they each like different things, some are high maintenance and get left in a parking lot.... , some you can't help bragging about and taking home to meet your mother.

 

[Bret4207]

I have more faith in you than that.

31-155: Play with your seating depth, I almost always start at 0.030 into the lands and back off from there 0.010 at a time.

311440: Come up another 0.5grs, 1.0grs, and 1.5grs.

Even this were an '06 or something else, the suggestion would be the same.

Report back.

One other tid bit. This is what works for me. When I shoot at a round bull/target with a scope and try to hold center, I find myself all over the place. So what I have been doing for number of years hold the cross hairs such that the bull is resting in corner where the horizontal and vertical crosshairs meet. The vertical will be along ether the right or left edge of the bull and the horizontal will lay along the bottom edge of the bull. This helps me reduce my wiggling.

Excellent advice! I found something other than a round bull works best with some sighting systems for me as my eyes go south. An inverted triangle works good in many case and only one aiming point to aim at rather than the 2 that using a "corner" of a bull requires.

 

[Bret4207]

I cleaned and reorganized my entire room because I couldn't find a T/C Contender forend screw I dropped. I think I might have a few of that bullet sitting around, sadly I don't even know where they came from.

I've organized, sized, annealed and cleaned about 200 lb of brass and found 1,000 jacketed bullets I didn't know I had. Who knew I was a hoarder?

You're not a hoarder, you're THRIFTY!!!

 

[Tomme boy]

I had a 243w in the boat paddle stock in SS. It would shoot just about everything except the real heavy Remington core locks under an inch. It was the reason that I started reloading to shoot more cheaper. But it really liked the Win Supreme 95gr bt. Shot several deer down in Missouri with it. One was at 360 yds on a hi power transmit line path.

But several of my friends were not having any luck with them at the time. Mine was a Ruger barrel. Before that Ruger was outsourcing their barrels. Before that they were Wilsons until Ruger started their own barrels.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Saying Ruger M77 is like saying Chevrolet, it can be a lot of different things.

Tang Safety model or 3 position safety? Push feed or controlled feed? How was the barrel made and by whom? Out of the box and unmodified or refined with bedded stock and free floated barrel? And the list goes on.

The M77 is solid rifle in my opinion. Ruger has always offered a lot of value for the money, but a lot of their products benefit from some refinement after they leave the factory. Not a bad thing and I like Ruger products, just an observation.

 

[Josh]

I previously helped a co-worker with some load development for a M77 chambered in 308, and even with our best efforts, about 1.5” groups at 100 yards was the floor. That was with 165 grain jacketed bullets and IMR-4895 powder. That rifle had a barrel that was a bit longer than the Gunsite model but still essentially the same action. It was a very consistent rifle year after year. Other folks with M77 rifles chambered for 30 caliber cartridges reported 2” -3” groups at 100 yards were the norm. The torque on the front action screw is commonly reported to be a critical factor in accuracy with that platform. I can’t speak to that directly, but it makes sense given the design of the stock/action.

I’m sure there are exceptions and outliers but the M77 seems to be a solid rifle regardless of the chambering. Maybe not one known for spectacular “out of the box” accuracy but 2 – 3 M.O.A isn’t horrible.

Honestly, if this gun never gets to be better than 2.5" at 100 yds with a 7 power scope and using 10 shot groups, I'd be happy with it.

If I were to shoot 5 shots instead of 10, some of these groups would have been 3/4". That's not it's real capability, but it's a real confidence booster.

Even 3 MOA is acceptable for hunting and informal plinking at a max of 300 yds.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Honestly, if this gun never gets to be better than 2.5" at 100 yds with a 7 power scope and using 10 shot groups, I'd be happy with it.

If I were to shoot 5 shots instead of 10, some of these groups would have been 3/4". That's not it's real capability, but it's a real confidence booster.

Even 3 MOA is acceptable for hunting and informal plinking at a max of 300 yds.

If you are getting 3/4" , 5 shot groups at 100 yards - I'd say you have a winner.
A 10 round group, unless shot over a considerable amount of time, is likely to be heating the barrel a bit.

 

[Josh]

You're not a hoarder, you're THRIFTY!!!

Yeah, I like thrifty, I don't feel as dirty LOL

I also use the upside-down triangle when using open sights, it makes for a much better sight picture.

 

[Josh]

If you are getting 3/4" , 5 shot groups at 100 yards - I'd say you have a winner.
A 10 round group, unless shot over a considerable amount of time, is likely to be heating the barrel a bit.

I shoot a 5 shot group, then I'll wait, shoot something else, and shoot the 2nd half. So I think the 10 shot string is a decent aggregate for it's capabilities.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I shoot a 5 shot group, then I'll wait, shoot something else, and shoot the 2nd half. So I think the 10 shot string is a decent aggregate for it's capabilities.

If you want to compare your rifle's capabilities to other people's reports of accuracy, everyone needs to be on the same standard. (or at least close to the same standard).
When people say "my rifle will shoot a 1 M.O.A." they are typically referring to a 3 or 5 shot group at 100 yards that measure 1" or less across.

Now, benchrest shooters will sometimes talk about center to center measurements of groups. Some folks will shoot at 200 yards and a 2" group at 200 yards is basically a 1 M.O.A. group. Some folks will shoot a 3 shot group and take that measurement.

Some people will fire a few fouling shots before they go for a group. Some people insist the group must include a cold bore shot from aclean barrel.

It's hard to get a real "apples to apples" standard when the communication is informal. Doesn't mean there's deception involved, it's just informal conversation.

If your rifle will put 5 rounds in a group that measures 3/4" across and it will do that at 100 yards, I'd say you have a good rig and a good cartridge.

 

[Missionary]

We all do our best with whatever rifle. The fun part is when the right combination clicks in.
Persuit of excellence is what divides rifleman from shooters.

 

[Josh]

If you want to compare your rifle's capabilities to other people's reports of accuracy, everyone needs to be on the same standard. (or at least close to the same standard).
When people say "my rifle will shoot a 1 M.O.A." they are typically referring to a 3 or 5 shot group at 100 yards that measure 1" or less across.

Now, benchrest shooters will sometimes talk about center to center measurements of groups. Some folks will shoot at 200 yards and a 2" group at 200 yards is basically a 1 M.O.A. group. Some folks will shoot a 3 shot group and take that measurement.

Some people will fire a few fouling shots before they go for a group. Some people insist the group must include a cold bore shot from aclean barrel.

It's hard to get a real "apples to apples" standard when the communication is informal. Doesn't mean there's deception involved, it's just informal conversation.

If your rifle will put 5 rounds in a group that measures 3/4" across and it will do that at 100 yards, I'd say you have a good rig and a good cartridge.

The problem of 3 and 5 shot groups are they're statistically too small. An average 3/4" 3 shot group can be 70% smaller or 70% bigger. So it could be 1/4" or 1 1/4". With the same load under the same conditions. A 5 shot 3/4" average group could be 50% larger or smaller, so a 3/8" group or a 1 1/8" group. The bigger your sample size, the better average group size.

I could cherry pick 3-5 shots out of that 10 shot average and get 3/4", that doesn't mean the rifle will do only that every time. If you noticed, I am happy with the rifle, it might not be in a cartridge I like, but I'm not upset with it's performance either. It's a utilitarian rifle shooting respectable utilitarian groups. I'm happy with it.