Getting ready for my 30-06 project…. I have ?

[STIHL]

I have been doing a lot of reading and thinking on what I want out of this project and what I want to accomplish with it. My list keeps growing and then getting cut back to something manageable. I have Not slugged the bore, done a pound cast, or even cleaned the rifle back to shiny condition to work on fit. I have strictly been researching load data for powders such as bullseye, titegroup, unique, SR-4759, IMR 3031.

What I am wanting to accomplish.
1. A fun rifle project with an existing rifle I never shoot. It needs to be worked out. Rifle is a T/C Venture 30-06. I was never really impressed with it with jacketed loads, so it got pushed to the back of the safe, and I actually like the rifle so it becomes cast bullet rifle and that’s how it will love the rest of its and my life.
2. I want a low velocity load for plinking, and I also want a higher velocity load I can work with for game animals, whitetail to be specific.
3. Finding he most accurate bullet and load combination of several different bullets, to determine which one is the best and which ones I can live with.

Questions.

1. Let’s assume I have a slug and pound cast of the chamber and have a know throat and groove diameter, and bore diameter.
What have you seen to work best as an average, a place to start? .0005 over groove, .001,.002???
Just looking for a place to start.

2. What would be my velocity cap? In your opinion with My alloy at 15 BHN, assume it’s a COWW ish alloy, gas checked and powder coated, the alloy is not brittle although hard “ish” it deforms quite nicely and doesn’t break into pieces. Where would you say I could “safely without having to worry about leading be able to go with velocity. According to the books It appears to be topping out around 2400 FPS. I think I’ll be ok as long as I get the Fit right.

Bullets I’ll be working with are: SAECO 315, 311466, 311467, Lee 309-170, 311332, and 311-413, Arsenal 311-170RF and a couple more depending on how these work out. I don’t have very high hopes for the 332, but I’m going to try it and see.

I understand there are many more variable here, but I haven’t done that much cast bullet rifle shooting and truthfully probably have been more lucky than good with what I have done. PC makes up for a lot of shortcomings when you are new. It has to have because I’ve had pretty good success with my 45-70s and 300BLK. Just trying to get a baseline in my head to make sure what I’m thinking makes decent sense and I’m going in the right direction.

 

[Ian]

For low velocity you don't need anything special. Load like the Lyman manuals tell you. Use ordinary lubricated cast bullets and about 8 grains of anything from Herco to Titegroup. Experiment with different primers, including large pistol primers, just make sure they seat fully.

Read everything @Ben has ever posted to this board, he has the target velocity rifle loading techniques down to a fine art.

 

[RicinYakima]

#1: I'd start with the largest bullet that will fit in a fired case neck with a full pressure jacketed load.

 

[Spindrift]

You're in for a lot of fun!

1) As for size, I've simply settled for .310 for my .30-06'es, whether the bullets are lubed or coated. It simply works. I wouldn't bother slugging the barrel of a modern rifle. Old warhorses are a different story.

2) With PC and GC, you probably can achieve 2400fps with no particular problems. But for your whitetail load, you need to consider the terminal ballistics as well. Maximum velocity is not necessarily what gives the bullet the best balance between penetration and expansion.
I would start out with that 311-170-RF, and look for accuracy at around 2100fps.

Good luck!

 

[STIHL]

@Ian it seems as if 8 grains is the magic number in the fast burning powders. Everything I have read points to 8 grains seeming to produce the smallest groups. You are also right, Ben seems to consistently have one ragged hole groups at 50 yards.

@Spindrift you caught me slipping. I forgot to say for hunting I’m looking at a completely different alloy composition and I know I will have to somewhat start over. Looking at 20:1 or 30:1 at this point for a softer slug better suited for expansion. This alloy is my plentiful alloy, just go get me started with the rifle and see what works before I go down a completely new rabbit hole.

@RicinYakima do you mean a jacketed start load?

 

[smokeywolf]

STIHL, don't overlook IMR4895. It lends itself very nicely to lower pressure plinking loads in 30-06.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads-2.pdf

Also, absolutely seek input from Ben on low to moderate pressure target loads for 30-06.

 

[CZ93X62]

OK--I'll say it out loud. The 30/30 WCF and the 30-06 are my longtime favorite cast bullet rifle calibers. Friendly twist rates, accuracy without much fuss and bother, and in many states that allow the use of lead alloys to hunt with the Bruce B Soft Points to fine work on game. I consider them 'The Poor Man's Nosler Partition'.

I had the pleasure of looking over the late Bruce Bannister's shoulder along with the late Bill Lose and Bruce Frechette, with Rick Tunnell standing by believing that we were all crazy. There were fits and starts to Bruce B's work, but I think he nailed the concept and I did a lot of beta testing to hammer out the concept. I used the BBSPs on critters, and that soft lead point does expand and penetrate through coyotes a long way. DRT, too--bang/flop.

I also satisfied myself that the ballistic behaviors of the BBSPs was identical to the same bullet designs cast of homogenous alloys (92/6/2 mostly) to 200 yards. Target practice with the less labor-intensive castings; hunt with the 'War shots'.

BBSPs are laborious to produce, but you don't need many of them--I have 20 each of 30/30 and 30-06 loads in my ammo cabinet to this day, rendered moot in 2017 when lead bullets were outlawed in Kalifornistan for hunting. The parallels to the Condor Cuddling lead bullet ban and .gov's fetish for electric vehicles is too ironic to be humorous.

I would be happy to write up a tutorial on casting the Bruce B Soft Point bullets if there is interest on the site; say the word.

 

[STIHL]

I’m going to attempt to clean my rifle and load my first batch of test rounds next week. I have a bunch of brass ready t load with LRP. I will have to dig some out to prime with pistol primers. Also have to check and coat some up.

Im pretty excited about this project.

 

[Reloader762]

I have a scoped budget Remington 770 that has only had cast bullets through it since I bought it off a guy for $200. The chamber has a tight neck, so the fattest bullet I can chamber in it is of .309" dia. but it shoots a couple of them with a few different powders really well. These are just 50 yd. test targets, so take that for what it's worth. All bullets are cast from 50/50 COWW/PB powder coated, quenched and gas checked before sizing to .309".



Its favorite is the NOE .310-165 gr. FN or 30 XCB as it's known. 35.0 grs. of H-4198.

 

[RicinYakima]

@RicinYakima do you mean a jacketed start load?

That is as good as any. The idea is to get a fully expanded case neck. That is a large as you can size to, if not good, size down a thou smaller and retest. The rifle will tell you what it wants.

 

[Thumbcocker]

STIHL, don't overlook IMR4895. It lends itself very nicely to lower pressure plinking loads in 30-06.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads-2.pdf

Also, absolutely seek input from Ben on low to moderate pressure target loads for 30-06.

4885, somewhere in the 30s, has done well for me in multiple '06s.

 

[shuz]

Does this reduced load info for H-4895 also work/apply to IMR 4895?

 

[RicinYakima]

Does this reduced load info for H-4895 also work/apply to IMR 4895?

Has worked for me with IMR brand also.

 

[fiver]

i gave away all the H-4895 i had.

using a filler with it [either 4895] will shrink your groups.
as will using one with 3031.
how much?
enough you'll start using it once you see.
if you don't want to use a filler go to 4064 and start at 34grs and work up slowly, you should find an easy to shoot node in there between 34 and 36.
the first two bullets is where i'd focus my attention.... sized to 310,,, or 311 if your rifle is a bit sloppy. [shrug] 310 should do it though.

 

[STIHL]

That is as good as any. The idea is to get a fully expanded case neck. That is a large as you can size to, if not good, size down a thou smaller and retest. The rifle will tell you what it wants.

I understand now and that makes sense.


@fiver i have about 3/4 pound of 4064 that never worked worth anything I tried it in. This would be as good a time as any to burn it up. I also have both 4895s on hand to. Which also never really worked for me in 308 that it was bought for.
Same line of thought with the H4895 seems like as good a time as any.

I just realized I have a problem!!! Guess it’s time to fire the pot back up and make some more bullets, I don’t have enough. Also going to have to prep some more range brass. I also think I have 100 new pieces somewhere????? Time to go to the shop a minute.

 

[fiver]

same-same head stamp should be good enough, we ain't building piano's here... LOL

anyway you gotta trick those medium speed powders into thinking they are in a smaller case.
you don't want to put 48-50grs in there, or maybe you do...LOL,,,, but your not gonna have real good results doing that.

 

[STIHL]

I found my new pieces. Norma, and they are all primed with Large Rifle. Back to the range brass, got 150 or so. Have to separate them out by head stamp for the fast powders. Your right after all They are going to be plinking loads.

Tricking the powder should be easy enough. Dacron filler or dryer lint should work to take up the air space, and pressure shouldn’t be an issue seeing as we are running well below max.

I know Dacron fills the case up, but will it affect pressures by decreasing the internal volume? What I’m asking is do I need to be particular with fillers at these charge weights.

 

[Ben]

In the 30-06 , I use fast burning powders.
I NEVER use a filler of any type.
My grandson and I shoot a lot of cast bullets in the 1,150 - 1,300 fps speed range.

Ben
___________________

From - 2019

The more I shoot this one, the more I like it.
The nose is 301" for the 1st half and .300 for the 2nd half .
The drive bands on the bullets were sized .311" today using 8.5 grs. of Unique and a Rem 2 1/2 large pistol primer.
Rifle was my T/C Venture 30-06. 5 rounds at 50 yards off the bench.

 

[STIHL]

@Ben Thanks, ill have to give it a try in this range and see what I can come up with. I have a plain base design to try out as well.

 

[MW65]

I've had great luck with American Select, and 314299 @.311 plain base in a 308... no need for fillers (just like in my sausage, I won't use them!!!) Regular LR primers.

Same boolit, but slightly different charge should work for the aught-six. Enjoy!!