H&G # 73 Mould

[Rick H]

Do these light-bullet wonder cartridges suck canal water? No, they don't--if you are willing to accept the marginal abilities of the 38 Special +P to produce a 1st place finish in an exchange of finality. It does beat throwing rocks or foot bail, certainly.

I spent 31 years of my life in the business of policing/investigating violent crimes in a major metropolitan area. I concur with CZ93X62 and extend it to all 35's and lesser calibers.

I have witnessed the failure of 35 cal. handguns to rapidly stop threats. Even a fella wearing pajama's, and a weird smile, while aiming a 22 semi-auto rifle. 7 solid torso hits with 110 Super-Vels and 158 Remington jacketed hollowpoints at a range of 10-15 feet. These were from 4" barreled Model 19/66 S&W's and were both 357 Magnum loads. The Super-Vels splashed but got to the lungs, the 158 Remingtons penetrated through the shooter, a metal cabinet, an interior wall and and outside brick veneer wall and may still be flying for all anyone knows. He died, but not before covering another officer and me with the muzzle of that damned rifle. Had we shut down his central nervous system he would have stopped quicker. None of the rounds hit his spine nor brain box.

I know that my personal nightmare is a worst case example. To be sure I have seen cases where smaller caliber weapons worked well, sometimes even without having to fire them. My conclusions are bigger is better (if you can handle it) and bullet placement trumps all. There are no magic cartridges or bullets in useful handgun calibers. I am NOT comfortable carrying 35's of any persuasion but admit they are superior not carrying at all. I carry a 40 S&W with 180 JHPs. I don't kid myself into believing it is some kind of laser beam that will instantly drop/stop any and all threats but it is the best compromise FOR ME.

 

[Thumbcocker]

Is the Lee 105 even close? Mine weigh about 115 grains sized and lubed.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I concur with a great deal of the comments by Al in post #20.

His observations of the decrease in accuracy of 38 Special bullets on the lighter end of the spectrum and his proffered theory as to the possible cause of that decrease in accuracy ring true. I will add that not only is his theory about the short bullets failing to fully engage the rifling before the base of the bullet clears the cylinder throat sound plausible, but it is also a well-known factor in forcing cone erosion. While this factor isn’t a huge deal at 38 Special levels, it becomes a serious issue with short bullets at .357 Magnum velocities and there are thousands of cracked K-frame forcing cones to support that finding.

The quest for extreme high velocity led to the creation of these ultra-lightweight jacketed hollow points and in my opinion, was not the correct path.

In my opinion, in 38 Special, a projectile in the 150-160 grain range is the ideal compromise of speed, mass, accuracy. In a 357 Magnum you can take advantage of the greater pressures available and push a 170ish grain bullet with excellent results. However, the 158 grain loadings in 357 mag are also still impressive.

The Speer 135 grain Gold Dot HP 38 Special +P Short Barrel load is about the lowest bullet weight I want in a 38 Special, and I wish that was 140 grains.

The FBI load, while not high tech, has a bit more mass and even if it fails to expand, it has a better chance of penetrating farther.

There’s no free lunch in physics. The best you can hope for is a good compromise.

 

[Mainiac]

Is the Lee 105 even close? Mine weigh about 115 grains sized and lubed.

All i do is shoot for accuracy groups.
Have no intention of shooting a person,,but if a scumbag breaks un my home,hes either getting 45acp in his guts,or 12 gauge buckshot.
This is intresting topic,but ive found that lee 105swc,to be extremely accurate in 9,38,357,revolver and pistol.but i also know the 358429 is a dandy,as well.both ends of the spectrum,and they all shoot excellent.

 

[CZ93X62]

The 357 Magnum WORKS as felon repellant, and bullet weight is less critical once past 1100 FPS or so--this according to a couple autopsy pathologists I've spoken with in the past. They believe that to some measure the Super Vel fanbois were half-correct--that impact at the speed of sound or faster can turn target media into secondary missiles within that media, cautioning that such effects are very unpredictable and unreliable until Mach 2 impact velocities are attained--as in 'Rifle bullets', roughly 2050 FPS.

Ahem.

My shop switched from the 158 JHP to the 125 Federal #357B in 2014 because the 158 grain loads weren't expanding in gelatin when fired from the 2" barrels that virtually all of our 357 qualifiers were using. The 125 grain 38 loads DID, though--and gave some penetration as well. The Federal #357B did expand when launched from the belly guns, so #357B was adopted. These loads don't recoil quite as heavily as the 158s did, either. The 2" 38s and 357s remain very popular as off-duty & back-up guns with our troops.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The Federal 357B was THE load for decades when 357 Magnum revolvers were the norm.
That 125 grain, semi-jacketed, semi-wadcutter, hollowpoint launched with magnum pressures just plain worked. And the lighter recoil was a bonus.

I'm not going to claim the 124 grain +P 9mm HP loads are the equal of the 357B, but I will say they are getting close.

 

[fiver]

all i got on the hot 125gr green and yellow box stuff is it doesn't work on a cow.
a 38 special 358477 moseying along will penetrate further than you'd think,, but there's not much of a wound channel.

whereas a 3/4's throttle 41 mag will drop it like it got it's legs chopped off, works on a 300 lb. Pig too.... all i need to know.