I am trying to estimate the velocity of a cast 200 grain bullet with 5 grains of HP-38. These will be fired in a 44 Special Charter Arms Target Bulldog with a 3 inch barrel. Hodgdon lists 4.5 grains at 743 fps and 5.6 grains at 918 from an 8 inch barrel. Does anyone have a chart or spreadsheet that will help
Help with 44 Special load for 3" barrel
- Thread starter PED1945
- Start date
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Try this;
www.ballisticsbytheinch.com
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .44 Special Results
(statement of intent)
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Does it really matter? Barring a chronograph, you'll never really know. I have access to a LabRadar. Hardly, ever use it. I let the target determine the load, based on accuracy.
Happen to own a 2.5 " Bulldog and a 3" S&W. However, never used HP-38, in last 50+ years of reloading. For top velocity, I use either Unique (Skeeter load) or 2400 powder. For plinking, Red Dot or similar faster powers.
I have only chronographed two of my stiff 2400 loads, that I carry for back up bow hunting, in the Bulldog.
265 RNFP (conventionally lubed) with 13 grains of 2400 for 828 fps.
250 RNFP (conventionally lubed) with 13 grains of 2400 for 818 fps.
Based on extrapolation, I would hazard to guess, your load is around 800 fps, plus or minus 25 fps.
Happen to own a 2.5 " Bulldog and a 3" S&W. However, never used HP-38, in last 50+ years of reloading. For top velocity, I use either Unique (Skeeter load) or 2400 powder. For plinking, Red Dot or similar faster powers.
I have only chronographed two of my stiff 2400 loads, that I carry for back up bow hunting, in the Bulldog.
265 RNFP (conventionally lubed) with 13 grains of 2400 for 828 fps.
250 RNFP (conventionally lubed) with 13 grains of 2400 for 818 fps.
Based on extrapolation, I would hazard to guess, your load is around 800 fps, plus or minus 25 fps.
Thanks for your response. In the final analysis, it really does not matter. Top velocity is not my goal. I am looking for reasonable accuracy and moderate recoil. Have been loading 44 Russian since 1963 with 4 grains of Bullesys and a 250 grain cast 429336. When I began loading 44 Special for the Bulldog, I used the same load. Since Bullseye does not meter easily, in 1975 I switched to Win 231 (HP-38). At the same time I added a 2 cavity mold ( such luxury) the Lee 429-214 SWC. When I get lazy and buy cast bullets, I like the 200 grain RF. The 429336 is not ideal for revolvers as it lacks a crimping groove.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Only Russians, I've loaded was from cut down 44 Special brass that was starting to get neck splits.
My 44 caliber moulds are mostly RNFP's......Accurate's 210, Lyman's 240, MP's 250 (three pins for solid, HP and Cup point). Only, SWC is RCBS 240 GC.
Have some cast 200 grain RNFP from a borrowed Saeco mould but with the fixed sighted Bulldog, they shoot too low. So, I gravitate towards the nominal for caliber weights.
AA#7 is a sweet metering powder, clean burning and gives good accuracy with decent velocity in 44 Special. I use it mainly for 9mm. Tried in in the Special to conserve my dwindling supply of Unique.
My 44 caliber moulds are mostly RNFP's......Accurate's 210, Lyman's 240, MP's 250 (three pins for solid, HP and Cup point). Only, SWC is RCBS 240 GC.
Have some cast 200 grain RNFP from a borrowed Saeco mould but with the fixed sighted Bulldog, they shoot too low. So, I gravitate towards the nominal for caliber weights.
AA#7 is a sweet metering powder, clean burning and gives good accuracy with decent velocity in 44 Special. I use it mainly for 9mm. Tried in in the Special to conserve my dwindling supply of Unique.
Most of my 44 Russian cases are original balloon head REM-UMC. When I began loading 44 Russian in 1962, a few could still be found on back shelves of hardware stores. Never found a full box. Visited all of the old hardware stores in and around Nashville and bought all I could find. Still have most of them. Also made a batch by trimming 44 Specials to .970".
These were used in an old, Belgian made, single-shot, break open, duelling pistol that dad bought in an antiques store while TDY in Athens Greece. Sadly this pistol was stolen in 1984. Favorite load for this pistol was a 250 grain cast 429336 bullet. No crimp was needed in a single shot pistol. Powder was usually 4 grains of Bullseye or 6 grains of Unique.
A friend, for whom I reloaded, bought the Bulldog in 1975 and the short cases were used in it, usually with 214 grain bullets from the Lee mold. Friend sold it to me in 1992.
Also have an RCBS 429-225 SWC-GC. Bullets cast in the RCBS mold work very well in a 44 Magnum SBH but not in my 1894 Marlin. When crimped in the crimping groove, the OAL is too long to feed from the magazine. In addition, Marlin's Micro-Groove rifling seems to want a larger diameter cast bullet to produce acceptable accuracy. I will need a larger diameter gas check mold for this application.
These were used in an old, Belgian made, single-shot, break open, duelling pistol that dad bought in an antiques store while TDY in Athens Greece. Sadly this pistol was stolen in 1984. Favorite load for this pistol was a 250 grain cast 429336 bullet. No crimp was needed in a single shot pistol. Powder was usually 4 grains of Bullseye or 6 grains of Unique.
A friend, for whom I reloaded, bought the Bulldog in 1975 and the short cases were used in it, usually with 214 grain bullets from the Lee mold. Friend sold it to me in 1992.
Also have an RCBS 429-225 SWC-GC. Bullets cast in the RCBS mold work very well in a 44 Magnum SBH but not in my 1894 Marlin. When crimped in the crimping groove, the OAL is too long to feed from the magazine. In addition, Marlin's Micro-Groove rifling seems to want a larger diameter cast bullet to produce acceptable accuracy. I will need a larger diameter gas check mold for this application.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
That Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 Special is a Cracker-Jack defensive tool. Its capabilities are limited pressure-wise, it is probably best to not exceed the old "246 grain RN @ 700-715 FPS" pressure standards for steady use. That would translate to 200 grains at about 800 FPS, which is no slouch. Diameter does the heavy lifting in this application--not velocity.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Charter has a lifetime warranty...........so I'm not that worried. The limiting factor is how much recoil you can put up with in a lightweight revolver. I only touch off about 20 rounds per session. That trigger guard wreaks havoc with the first joint of my trigger finger, due to arthritis.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Whose lifetime? Yours or the company’s ?
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
the 429421 backed by 6-6.5 grs Unique out of my BD's 3" barrel is probably not over 800 fps, but she smacks whatever it hits with a pretty solid thump! I've seen that bullet and load penetrate over a foot on head shot cattle. It's no slouch!!!
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
At my age, the company will probably out last me.Whose lifetime? Yours or the company’s ?
At my age, the company will probably out last me.
Says the little whipper snapper.
BTW, happy birthday. 
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I am very fond of the 44 Special and "Skeeter's Load"--Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Unique. Its ballistic resemblance to the old 41 Magnum "Police Load" is ironic. These loads are fairly docile in N-frame S&Ws or like-sized platforms. A standard weight cast SWC at 900-1000 FPS has become my go-to load characteristic in magnum revolvers and Ruger 45 Colt.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
My “Skeeter Equivalent” load is a RCBS 44-250-SWC seated to the crimp groove over 8.1 grains of Unique in a 44 Magnum casing. (simply because I have more magnum brass than 44 Special brass)
That bullet cast from 30:1, sized to .430” and lubed with NRA 50/50 is a joy to shoot in a 4” 629 N-frame.
I’ve run that same combination at 8.3 grains in a magnum casing and didn’t see much difference, so I stick with 8.1gr.
In a 44 Special casing the powder charge is dropped to 7.5 grains of Unique and everything else remains the same.
That bullet cast from 30:1, sized to .430” and lubed with NRA 50/50 is a joy to shoot in a 4” 629 N-frame.
I’ve run that same combination at 8.3 grains in a magnum casing and didn’t see much difference, so I stick with 8.1gr.
In a 44 Special casing the powder charge is dropped to 7.5 grains of Unique and everything else remains the same.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
More than you need for any "wolf at the door" problem you may have.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
That load gets rather vigorous in a Charter BD. In my 24-3 it's a whole different thing. Funny how some weight and different physical shape/grips can change something.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
This ground has been covered many times, but the SAAMI specifications for 44 Special are set arbitrarily and ridiculously low. The “Skeeter” load is slightly above the limit set by SAAMI for 44 Special.
In a modern revolver chambered for 44 Special, I don’t believe the “Skeeter” load is dangerous, but it is beyond the industry standard for 44 Special. A steady diet of that load in a light revolver (even a modern one like a Charter Arms) is probably not a good idea in terms of longevity of the firearm. In a modern S&W N-frame chambered in 44 Special (essentially the same platform as a magnum N-frame but with shorter chambers), I think the Skeeter load is a non-issue. In a magnum N-frame, it is absolutely a non-issue.
What is needed is an industry standard for 44 Special +P. This standard doesn’t currently exist but it sure would be nice if it was created. The gap between the maximum allowable pressure of a 44 Special and the maximum pressure of a 44 Magnum is huge. (15K psi v. 36K psi). Wouldn’t it be great if there was an acceptable industry standard for an intermediate 44 cartridge around 20K or 22K psi ?
In a modern revolver chambered for 44 Special, I don’t believe the “Skeeter” load is dangerous, but it is beyond the industry standard for 44 Special. A steady diet of that load in a light revolver (even a modern one like a Charter Arms) is probably not a good idea in terms of longevity of the firearm. In a modern S&W N-frame chambered in 44 Special (essentially the same platform as a magnum N-frame but with shorter chambers), I think the Skeeter load is a non-issue. In a magnum N-frame, it is absolutely a non-issue.
What is needed is an industry standard for 44 Special +P. This standard doesn’t currently exist but it sure would be nice if it was created. The gap between the maximum allowable pressure of a 44 Special and the maximum pressure of a 44 Magnum is huge. (15K psi v. 36K psi). Wouldn’t it be great if there was an acceptable industry standard for an intermediate 44 cartridge around 20K or 22K psi ?