Howa .308 Win. at the range.
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
made sense to me.
the case will be open, and then the bullet will start moving.
either way the bullet ain't supported till it's in the barrel, don't much matter if it's half inside the case or not.
not sure what case your using, but about 9grs. of your three faster powders should get you close.
trail boss doesn't exist to me [and never has] so i got nuthin on it.
the case will be open, and then the bullet will start moving.
either way the bullet ain't supported till it's in the barrel, don't much matter if it's half inside the case or not.
not sure what case your using, but about 9grs. of your three faster powders should get you close.
trail boss doesn't exist to me [and never has] so i got nuthin on it.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
In a closed container, like a cartridge case, the pressure of the gas is equal in all directions.
fiver, I have a question. We all agree the lead bullet will swell about everywhere it can. So, why do we need to size our bullets larger than groove diam. something I have read in Lyman #4 is several 22 center fire data says to size to 224 & some calibers to 225. also the 308 info says size to 308 & a 3006 to 309 and they both shoot the same bullets. this also makes no sense to me.
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
And the sides of the bullet have equal pressure, stopping it from mushrooming.
fiver
Well-Known Member
the 308 and the 30-06 do not have the same throat shape or dimensions until you get the bullet in the barrel.
so what we got here with them saying 2 different diameters doesn't but does make sense.
doesn't make sense in the fact both diameters are a touch too small, about .002 too small.
but makes sense in the fact that that the 308 generally has a tighter throat and neck diameter.
we have to remember the main goal of fitment.
what we are trying to do is block off the pressure so the gas doesn't flow around parts of the bullet and cut a groove into any part of it.
right?
totally contradictory to what we are saying about you not having an issue with your bullet being down inside the case.
so how much leading you got?
so what we got here with them saying 2 different diameters doesn't but does make sense.
doesn't make sense in the fact both diameters are a touch too small, about .002 too small.
but makes sense in the fact that that the 308 generally has a tighter throat and neck diameter.
we have to remember the main goal of fitment.
what we are trying to do is block off the pressure so the gas doesn't flow around parts of the bullet and cut a groove into any part of it.
right?
totally contradictory to what we are saying about you not having an issue with your bullet being down inside the case.
so how much leading you got?
RBHarter
West Central AR
At the risk of plagiarism.
X never ever marks the spot .
95% of your research will be done in the library.
Go try stuff . Even if it doesn't work you'll learn that it didn't work .
I had a hard time figuring out a certain group of relationships in cast bullets. More specifically start pressure, acceleration, and duration , but not just burn dwell time but how it all related the mechanical duration in the barrel
Now at this point I have to explain that I once drove a truck that would literally flood stall on high octane fuel because it simply didn't have enough chamber pressure to burn the fuel even taching 3100 rpms . Get the octane down to 98 or so it would run on the highway but warm on a hot day it didn't idle for beans over 89 octane . So it it goes with a 61' IHC 345 that makes a whopping 145 BHP at 4400 rpm . It ran great on the 84-86 stuff . I suppose we could have moved the timing back to 0 and tried it Duplex the 135 Oct av gas but it was only 65 gallons so no point really .
I had to drop back and figure why my 06' did what it was doing......after I fixed a lot of bugs in the barrel . . So I loaded Red Dot under a 200 gr Spitzer cast . I guess I started at like 5-6 gr and worked it up until it blew out the groups . That happened about 1200 fps . Now there are at least a couple of y'all going well of course it did and your 8.5" twist didn't help but it wasn't hurting anything at that point . Then I started Unique just below that it went all the way to 1500 fps MV .... I don't remember what I used next , I had little dabs of 800x , Blue Dot , Steel and something else in the same area . Then I jumped to I 4350 even patched the design was only good for 1800 fps in the fast twist with a huntable alloy . I learned from that and stuff from all of the tomes of reading started to not only fit together but really make sense .
I went on and applied what I learned there to pistols and their carbines . You can't get enough of anything slower than about 4227 in a 158 gr 357 to get anything useful out of it in a carbine and have it feed . But a 45 Colts with a 350 and H322 is the reason I just went ahead and bought the 45-70 . <20kpsi in a 16" barrel will get you almost 1300 fps , but only 600 fps in a 7.5" RBH .
Sometimes you just have to load up a bunch of stuff and go shoot a bunch of stuff up so the book stuff makes sense .
Science was baffled by the Bagdad battery for decades. Then this college kid says "has anybody built a new one and filled it to see what it does ?" Sure enough copper plates in a clay box full of grape juice made it's own surface charge ....it also sulfated out pretty fast . Maybe it's not a battery . California adds sulfates to get that 12-14% alcohol rating so maybe the Bagdaddies just wanted to hop up the wine .
X never ever marks the spot .
95% of your research will be done in the library.
Go try stuff . Even if it doesn't work you'll learn that it didn't work .
I had a hard time figuring out a certain group of relationships in cast bullets. More specifically start pressure, acceleration, and duration , but not just burn dwell time but how it all related the mechanical duration in the barrel
Now at this point I have to explain that I once drove a truck that would literally flood stall on high octane fuel because it simply didn't have enough chamber pressure to burn the fuel even taching 3100 rpms . Get the octane down to 98 or so it would run on the highway but warm on a hot day it didn't idle for beans over 89 octane . So it it goes with a 61' IHC 345 that makes a whopping 145 BHP at 4400 rpm . It ran great on the 84-86 stuff . I suppose we could have moved the timing back to 0 and tried it Duplex the 135 Oct av gas but it was only 65 gallons so no point really .
I had to drop back and figure why my 06' did what it was doing......after I fixed a lot of bugs in the barrel . . So I loaded Red Dot under a 200 gr Spitzer cast . I guess I started at like 5-6 gr and worked it up until it blew out the groups . That happened about 1200 fps . Now there are at least a couple of y'all going well of course it did and your 8.5" twist didn't help but it wasn't hurting anything at that point . Then I started Unique just below that it went all the way to 1500 fps MV .... I don't remember what I used next , I had little dabs of 800x , Blue Dot , Steel and something else in the same area . Then I jumped to I 4350 even patched the design was only good for 1800 fps in the fast twist with a huntable alloy . I learned from that and stuff from all of the tomes of reading started to not only fit together but really make sense .
I went on and applied what I learned there to pistols and their carbines . You can't get enough of anything slower than about 4227 in a 158 gr 357 to get anything useful out of it in a carbine and have it feed . But a 45 Colts with a 350 and H322 is the reason I just went ahead and bought the 45-70 . <20kpsi in a 16" barrel will get you almost 1300 fps , but only 600 fps in a 7.5" RBH .
Sometimes you just have to load up a bunch of stuff and go shoot a bunch of stuff up so the book stuff makes sense .
Science was baffled by the Bagdad battery for decades. Then this college kid says "has anybody built a new one and filled it to see what it does ?" Sure enough copper plates in a clay box full of grape juice made it's own surface charge ....it also sulfated out pretty fast . Maybe it's not a battery . California adds sulfates to get that 12-14% alcohol rating so maybe the Bagdaddies just wanted to hop up the wine .
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I think most problems from people sticking a gas checked bullet way in the case is from the older slip on checks. And that was the reason for the horrible accuracy not that the bullet was seated deeply. Some of the first checks I used were the Lyman ones. They would fall off just moving the bullet. So I started to glue them on when sizing.
Now all I use are crimp on checks.
Now all I use are crimp on checks.
fiver
Well-Known Member
so there's no problem with the bullet sticking down inside the case...
next issue will be accuracy.
you might be seating even deeper at some point... or simply changing the bullet design to more accurately reflect the shape of your throat and freebore area.
fiver
Well-Known Member
not a problem.
like i said you'll still have things you'll be changing.
one of my 308 bullets [naked] is sized to 310 just so that it scuffs the freebore on the way into being seated.
everything from that point backwards has to be shaped into the barrel.
but it's pretty hard to screw up the alignment when the nose is engraved, half the bullet is supported by the barrel just in front of the chamber, and it's aligned by the case.
one thing that bothers me though is the scraping of the powder coat, it really shouldn't shave off just from being chambered.
like i said you'll still have things you'll be changing.
one of my 308 bullets [naked] is sized to 310 just so that it scuffs the freebore on the way into being seated.
everything from that point backwards has to be shaped into the barrel.
but it's pretty hard to screw up the alignment when the nose is engraved, half the bullet is supported by the barrel just in front of the chamber, and it's aligned by the case.
one thing that bothers me though is the scraping of the powder coat, it really shouldn't shave off just from being chambered.
The only mold I have for 308 that scrapes a fine line of coating is a lee 312 155gn made for a 762X39 . the nose is a few thou. fatter than my NOE 152gc. mold . both bullets have long pointy noses . now if I hand feed it into the chamber instead laying it on the loading ramp ( I have converted my rifles to single shot with a glue in follower ) it does not scrape anything off.