Ideal 452374

[JonB]

This is one of those times, that's like finding a $20 bill in the pocket of a jacket that you haven't worn in years. Someone at the other forum asked for dimensions for one of these. I knew I had one, so I dig it out of my stash and thumb through my notebooks. This perfect looking sgl cav is a pre-ventline mold. My notes says it was a 2013 gunshow gift from "Frank" [an old gunshow vendor pal of mine]. I cast with it one session in 2013, but never loaded any. I did find a peanut butter jar full of them on the shelf, so the casting must have went smoothly to get that many from the maiden casting session, of a sgl cav mold.

Now, I kinda wanna load 'em and see what my 625 JM thinks of them.

 

[Ben]

I highly recommend it :
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/ideal-452374.5263/

 

[462]

A classic design that Lyman has changed the particulars of numerous times. I've owned two over the years, the first a Lyman four-banger, the last a Lyman single-cavity. Though it's only seen use in the Randall 1911, but of all the moulds I've sold, the 452374 is the only one I'd ever consider renewing an acquaintance with.

 

[CZ93X62]

The Lyman #452374 is the most faithful bullet cavity to John Browning's original specs for the 1911 bullet design. 2 Lyman reloading data sets show 1.272" as the proper OAL for seating bullets in 45 ACP cases

 

[L Ross]

The Lyman #452374 is the most faithful bullet cavity to John Browning's original specs for the 1911 bullet design. 2 Lyman reloading data sets show 1.272" as the proper OAL for seating bullets in 45 ACP cases

And somehow we decided that that bullet wasn't any good. .45 anything is a big hitter.

 

[CZ93X62]

Yeah, Hatcher Scale purists get a little strident about Form Factor at times. From what I've seen over the years form factor gets a lot less critical once handgun bullet diameter meets or exceeds .400". Those Moro berserkers during the Philippine Insurrection were quite instructive about what works and what doesn't on goblins anaesthetized on drugs, alcohol, raw fury, and religion. The Colt New Service/SAA in 45 Colt did the job. The 45 ACP's paper ballistics hew closely to those of the 45 Colt, and our nation's Moro experiences birthed that outcome.

 

[KeithB]

I've got two Lyman 452374 two-cavity molds. One was in really good shape, the other was a little rattly with a slightly rough interior. I selected the latter mold to hollow point. I did an inset bar type so the pins stay with the mold and stay hot. I can cast HPs in that mold as fast as I can cast solids in the other mold. It knocks the weight down by about 15 grs. Never expected expansion but the weight reduction saves a little on lead and reduces recoil a little.

As I see it the virtues of this bullet are (a) it should feed in any mechanically sound .45ACP autoloader when loaded properly, (b) the lack of a shoulder means they drop right into the cylinder of a .45 ACP/AR revolver w/o hanging up, and (c) the simple shape makes it easy to cast good bullets with almost any alloy.

There are better bullet forms for target and self defense uses but the 452374 will do both tasks quite well.

 

[CZ93X62]

Turn the clock back 40-50 years, and autoloading pistols of those times did not always feed the HP or sharp-shouldered bullet designs very well. My first 45 ACP--a Colt Gov't Model/Series 70 fit that description. It was a 1979 build bought in early 1980 IIRC. It fed hardball flawlessly and properly-seated #452374s ran just as well. STHPs or Rem 185 JHPs, though? Fuggetaboutit.

The S&W and SIG-Sauer 45 ACP and 9mm variants my shop approved in 1987 fed HPs like water through a downspout. Winchester STHPs were coin of the realm for a while, and they ran great. So do Lyman #452374s. These days the 1911A1 clones and copies of decent quality will digest HP bullets readily--including my Series-80 Gold Cup. Its Elliason target rear sight is about as sturdy as a glass hammer, but it makes a crisp sight picture.

 

[L Ross]

My experience with the 452374 is fresh in my mind but moss covered in reality. In other words it was quite a long time ago. I was a young officer in a municipality and we had a shooting range and a club house out on the out skirts of the city. The County Sheriff's deputies often used our range.
One day the Sheriff's Dept. had a 1962 Olds towed out to the range for some guns and ammo "testing." I think their primary objective was to rub our noses in it that they were now carrying .357's with JHPs and us City boys were still carrying .38s. Of course the .357 would get through the Old's door and penetrate a plywood "diver" they had inside. Our .38s made a not too impressive dent in the door.
Then the question arose about "off duty" guns. I was packin' a Combat Commander stuffed with 452374s cast of some linotype blend because Elmer told me the shallow rifling of a 1911 required a hard ball equivalent. I had some full power hard ball powder charge behind them.
The County's "Range Master" turned to the assembled throng and announced how superior the .357 was to the .45 and how the Era of the automobile bandit pushed rural law officers and highway patrolman to use the .357 and how there had even been "armor piercing" ammo produced.
Having shot my .45 at some pretty heavy sheet metal and was pretty sure it would make it through the car door. The Range Officer asked me to shoot the Old's door and to try and miss the dents and .357 holes. As I walked up about 15 yards away I said as long as I missed the steel I-beam in the lower door I was pretty sure it would penetrate. The Range Officer said he was pretty sure my lead bullets were going to flatten out.
I shot, there was a hole in the door, then a Deputy said, "Holy shit!" and we watched a a small willow growing in the berm at the back of the range about 35 yards behind the Olds gracefully tipped over having been clipped off after the .45 slug went through the driver's door, the plywood "driver" the passenger door and beyond. It helped that the windows were rolled up because they wanted to shoot through glass later.
I resolved right then and there to hide behind the engine block of my squad if I were ever in a gun battle.

 

[Missionary]

Was in the "green machine" from 71-74 (Armor) so had access to numerous "real life use" tales of 45 ACP. Never once did I hear "marginal" or "inadequate". Biggest gripe was " needed a larger magazine".
At least the "grease gun" had that. Plus a faster expelled bullet !

 

[L Ross]

Darn, now I'm jones'n for a 1911 again.

 

[462]

jones'n

The rock I live under must be larger than I thought because I don't know what it means, but every red-blooded American ought to keep some sort of 1911.

 

[RBHarter]

I'm partial to the P35 ........ 1917 will do fine , reloads are about the same and you only give 2 rounds .

 

[CZ93X62]

Car bodies and pistol bullets. Not the first time I have posted this vignette here. Summer of 2003 was mondo-busy at my shop. I had been running my CSI folks ragged all summer long. In mid-August overnight one of our truly lovely thug/drug slingers of note became involved in a misunderstanding while driving his red-primer 1990s Ford Bronco along SR 60 dark & early that morning. This misunderstanding was conducted with one or more 40 S&W pistols. The slugs I recovered from the Bronco's interior were of the FMJ/TC persuasion, and at least 4 of the 10 or so slugs we recovered had likely comparable bore characteristics if the matter went so far as to justify such processes.

Our protagonist had clearly upset someone's apple cart. The penetrations spanned a 270* arc encircling the Bronco--every piece of glass was shattered, including all three mirrors. We used dowel rods to chart the trajectories.......and ran out about 2/3 through the process. The ID trucks and vans carried 24 each. It was quite an impressive picture--it looked for all the world like an oversized porcupine on 3 flat tires, esp. from the left front corner. I can assert with some confidence that 1990s Ford Broncos and F-150s are NOT bulletproof..

Our 'victim' Freddie was circling the drain for a couple days. The consensus view was that Freddie was an NFL Player--Not For Long. The guy was a self-contained and self-propelled crime wave. His passing would go unmourned, but the property detectives had plans of 'Closing by M/O & death of suspect' any number of burglaries and thefts they were carrying. (For this and many other reasons, take FBI UCR crime reporting stats with a grain of salt).

Alas--it was not to be. The strength of human spirit caused Freddie to rally anew, and the doctors who saved him announced that he was ready for interview as victim of attempted murder. I know you all are waiting to hear of how Freddie had an epiphany during his healing process and had decided that his evil ways were wholly wrong--that he would make a clean breast and reveal information leading to the arrest and successful prosecution of his assailants.

So. Not. Happening. I stopped by to take Freddie's statement about this life event. He had no idea how he wound up in the hospital or who had arranged the transport sequence.

"Try again" I encouraged.

"I'm good, Mr. Paine. I'll handle this myself."

Maybe I should have brought flowers--I guess I'll never know. What I DO know--some day the screwball leadership of the world powers will light off a nuclear holocaust that will roast most life forms on this planet instantly. Left alive to roam the cinders and biohazards are the cockroach--the coyote--and the meth zombie/burglar. All are unkillable.