Inherently inaccurate?

[BBerguson]

Reading the “5 worst rifles” thread about the Ruger something 44 magnum got me thinking about this…

Is the the 44 mag inherently inaccurate in a rifle? The article and most (maybe all) commenting on the thread talk about the inaccuracy of the Ruger. 3” groups at 50 yards and so on. I had a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag and it was very inaccurate so I sold it after about 6 months. I now have a CVA Scout in 44 mag and it hasn’t impressed me either. More accurate than the Marlin but by no means a tack driver. Most of us shooters talk about certain cartridges being inherently accurate. I’m beginning to wonder if the 44 magnum in rifles is inherently inaccurate.

Do any of you own a 44mag rifle that is a true tack driver? If you do, please please please share your load with me!

 

[Brad]

It has nothing to do with the cartridge, those are just platforms that are not set up for the best accuracy.
I am sure that in the right rifle the cartridge is capable of decent accuracy.

 

[BBerguson]

I understand this with the Marlin lever but the CVA Scout? Does anybody have experience with the Rem 788 in 44mag? I think it would be considered an inherently accurate rifle. How about the 44mag?

 

[fiver]

no reason for the 44 mag to not be accurate.
back in the day the 44 special was preferred over the 38 for target shooting, the 44 russian and american were also pernnial favorites for bulls-eye type shooting.

now the caveat and IMO why the 44's lost favor.
there is a company or two that have no tolerance control.

just look at the complaints about having to use 433 or even 434 diameter bullets in many lever rifles [cough coughmarlin cough]
the special cartridge also went through several years where tolerances were horrible, sometimes even backwards in many revolvers.
the cylinder guy was on the ball, the barrel guy [shrug] not so much, then on tuesday they switched,, sort of,, the cylinder guy got most of them right, then the guy running the screw things together machine well ya know..


anyway i got no problem with my Rossi, it takes 430 bullets and does right well with most everything from clays up through 2400.
so does my B-92.
the Dan wesson 44 mag i have makes me look pretty good, if i keep my booger hook under control [it has about a half pound trigger pull]
now the 94 trapper i have is a different animal it has a barrel more like the saami approved 431 rifle size with about 24 slightly raised ridges for rifling.
i make 430 diameter Jacketed bullets for it and move along, it's happy i'm happy. [i'd like 431, but a new rifle would be cheaper than another swage die]

with what you got i'd start going bigger and bigger and slightly harder till they come around.

 

[RicinYakima]

What Fiver said! I only reloaded for one Ruger 44 carbine. Its cases were so far expanded that I had to put them on the bench and roll the case mouth with a chunk of square stock to even get them into the sizing die. Ruger's were not make for accuracy. Even Bill Ruger said that if it shot good enough for a farm boy in the corn field, it was good enough. If you got one made on Wednesday, that may be different.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

I used to shoot with an old friend who had an old highwall in 44mag he & it on a good day would shoot very good at 50 yards.
Mostly 5 or 6 gr of bullseye, the sound was Mostly the primer going off.....a soft pufff....whack.

My Ruger as I said in the other thread, I have only shot a few times to sight in, but I was very impressed with the accuracy. I only used some Remington factory loads I had bought at a yard sale years back.


Don't mean to drift on ya here but...any one shoot cast , not pc'ed in a Ruger carbine, just wondering if it would be OK with the gas system?
Jeff

 

[JustJim]

I understand this with the Marlin lever but the CVA Scout? Does anybody have experience with the Rem 788 in 44mag?

I had one for a while. Didn't like to feed SWC, or heavy (>280 gr) bullets. Wasn't the most scope-friendly rifle either. It did OK with what teenage me knew about handloading and bullet casting. If you can pry one away from the collectors, they make a very nice short-range (100 yards or so) target rifle.

 

[fiver]

i'd prefer coated with a gas system.
i haven't had any issues with naked lead in my AR's or other gas guns, but i'll probably get around to switching most of them over to coated bullets eventually.

 

[CZ93X62]

I don't think the cartridge is intrinsically inaccurate. The 44 Magnum's accuarcy issues (in my view) are twofold--

1) The dimensional poetry described above.

2) The rifling twist rate of 1:38" that many 44 Magnum rifles are handicapped with. It's OK for the short squatty 200 grain bullets of the 44/40 WCF, but plug the values into Greenhill and it's maginal at best with 240 grain bullets or longer.

Lever rifles are conspicuous by their absence at benchrest matches, and most 44 Mag rifles are leverguns. That said my own 44 Mag levergun--a Miroku/Winchester 1892 about 15 years old dotes upon .431" castings to 1800 FPS and can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards all day long. Twist rate is about 1-20" or so. I have moved 3 Marlin 94s in 44 Mag down the road for lackluster accuracy and oversized throats/grooves. The NipponChester has stuck.

 

[Rick H]

I have a CVA Scout2 in 44 Mag. I bought it when Michigan ok'ed straight walled cartridges for the "Shotgun zone". It has a 1-4 scope on it with heavy duplex crosshairs so not geared towards target work. The CVA has a 1-20" twist rate but I have only fired 240 gr. Hornady Jacketed and 235 Gr. NOE RF's through it. The Jacketed bullets in front of a case full of 296/h110 at 1775 fps shoot under 2" at 100 yds. To be honest I don't know if I can hold any better than that with the coarse crosshairs and 4x. The cast under 2" at 50 with 2400.

I never really wrung the rifle out. The cast load was good enough for relatively inexpensive practice and the Jkt. did what I needed to hunt with. Not a tack driver, but a decent 150yd. whitetail rifle.

 

[Bret4207]

dup

ETA 1/13/22- Huh! I had a post all written out and done and when I posted it it came up twice, so I deleted one and put the "dup" note on. Weird.

My point was that it's not the cartridge, it's not at all inherently inaccurate. It's the guns we use to shoot it in. Get a decent platform to launch from and all the problems disappear.

 

[L Ross]

Oh come on fellas, doesn't anyone have a .44 mag in a 788? That'd be a proper test bed.

 

[Missionary]

If we ever wear out our .243 788 maybe a 44 mag would be feasible. But I do not think our lead slugs will ever wear out that barrel.

 

[Brad]

The 44 mag seems to do well in handgun silhouette.
Is it the cartridge that is inherently inaccurate or the platforms it is commonly placed in?

 

[Winelover]

Marlin's in 44 Mag require fat bullets. I feed mine Star sized bullets at .433 diameter. That size also happens to work best in my RH and CA Bulldog, too................slip fit in throats. Only, the 24-3 requires bullets sized at .431/.432. I just run them though the LAM with an appropriate die, as I'm reloading.

I think most reloaders are stuck on heavy for caliber bullets (300+ grains) in 44 Magnum reloadings. Marlin's 1-38 twist isn't conducive to accuracy with heavy bullets. I stop at 265 grains.



Accurate's 210 RNFP turned in very nice group at 100 yards, off the bench.



RCBS 300 SWC (hollow pointed by Eric) shot decent at 60 yards out of my hunting blind. Tripod as front rest.



The MP 250 RNFP (HP weighs in at 238 grains) out of the hunting blind, did well also.

Common denominator: Neck sized brass, 18 grains of 2400 powder, WLP primers.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I had a Marlin 1894 43 Mag and a Ruger BOLT 43 Mag. The Marlin was a good shooter with everything for me. Dont remember its era probably 1990 ish. The Ruger was a 77/44 and it was pretty bad. Best jacketed was about 4" @ 100. I never was happy. Hinted it one year. Loved the rifle hated its preformance.

CW

 

[RBHarter]

Painfully limited 44 anything knowledge here .
Like the 45s there's a rifle and pistol groove spec , unfortunately unlike the 45s excluding the pre 1910 SAA , they didn't keep them separated by cartridge which is handy I guess if you have a rifle you can shoot Special, mag , super mag and 444 in but not so much when you have a 44 Bull Dog to go with the M92 PCC and you want to share ammo with a .429 and .432 groove . That can't be good even with jackets let alone with our monolithic solids .

Why would one expect a bullet for a 454 to shoot well in a 45-70 or 458 WM . Same deal with the 44s .

If you barrel rifle or carbine with a .429 groove and a .440 chamber dia I'd expect better results. That ain't happening until the , pardon the expression,"44 fan boys" demand it of the industry and make buying .429 blanks and making the manufacturers fix the models that don't have them an every day thing .

Of course the 38/357/358 and to a lesser degree 9 mm have wallored around until they over lap so much that they are just a single dia of about 356/357and solved the problem.

I guess it's just no surprise that 44 stuff shoots lacklusterfully .

 

[Winelover]

Painfully limited 44 anything knowledge here .
Like the 45s there's a rifle and pistol groove spec , unfortunately unlike the 45s excluding the pre 1910 SAA , they didn't keep them separated by cartridge which is handy I guess if you have a rifle you can shoot Special, mag , super mag and 444 in but not so much when you have a 44 Bull Dog to go with the M92 PCC and you want to share ammo with a .429 and .432 groove . That can't be good even with jackets let alone with our monolithic solids .

Why would one expect a bullet for a 454 to shoot well in a 45-70 or 458 WM . Same deal with the 44s .

If you barrel rifle or carbine with a .429 groove and a .440 chamber dia I'd expect better results. That ain't happening until the , pardon the expression,"44 fan boys" demand it of the industry and make buying .429 blanks and making the manufacturers fix the models that don't have them an every day thing .

Of course the 38/357/358 and to a lesser degree 9 mm have wallored around until they over lap so much that they are just a single dia of about 356/357and solved the problem.

I guess it's just no surprise that 44 stuff shoots lacklusterfully .

Smallest diameter, I load in my half dozen 9's is .3585.

My Rossi 38/357 carbine gets .360 diameter. My LCR throats will accept that size, also.

My three S&W J-frames get the .3585 diameter. Python, also...........won't chamber .360 diameter bullets.

So there is no standard, as far as I'm concerned.

I get little to no leading in all my firearms. Never ever, slugged a barrel, either. Go big or go home.

 

[RBHarter]

I too have a .355 380 and .357 9mm ....the the 358 Win is only .357 ......... There is that 38 Short that is .360 but it's a 1901 H&R so ....... Also my Rossi 45 Colts are only .450 but will chamber a .454 the 45 ACP 1917 won't take over a .4530 and that's a heavy thumb it flush deal . So one size won't cut it there the 9/38/357/358 are getting by .

 

[Tom]

Oh come on fellas, doesn't anyone have a .44 mag in a 788? That'd be a proper test bed.

I've never had one in 44, but all but one 788 I've owned required meticulous load development (pick a midrange load from the book using whatever I had on hand). It was hard to find a load that didn't work well. I would guess one in 44 magnum would shoot well.
Now, Tom, put down the credit card and close the gunbroker page before you do something stupid.