Interesting rifle powder data for .44 Mag.

[Pistolero]

Interesting thread. I have never tried anything slower than 4227 in .44 Mag. I do need
to get a good load for a couple of carbines - Win94 and Browning 92. So far no really good
cast loads for them. And I have to agree about the recoil. My first shot with the .44 Mag Win 94
really surprised me - OUCH! I literally stopped and thought about it -- "I shoot this load
in a S&W Mtn Gun and it isn't so bad, but it kicks like heck in this rifle!?"

I will be trying 4227 and 4198 for carbine loads in addition to my usual H110 and some surplus
WC820.

Thread drift warning!

However ... if you look at the Dupont page that Chris posted, the data block to the right of the .44 Mag
data is for the .45-70. I have found that W748 (which is somewhat faster than 4895/4064 burning speed)
is excellent in the .45-70, low pressures and very good velocity with a 405 bullet.
The chart shows 52.5 gr IMR4895 making 1785 fps at only 26,900 psi. 55.0 gr of 4064 makes 1780 fps
at 26,700 psi. The 4064 is a full case, but apparently 4895 isn't, or at least isn't compressed.

My load of 54.5 gr of W748 under a 405 gr cast or jbullet gives 1750 fps and is reported to be "at trapdoor
pressures", which IIRC is about 26,000 psi. I had not tried 4895 in the .45-70, did try 3031 and found
nothing there to like, the only case where Elmer's recommendation on loading data has disappointed me.
Interesting that you normally don't find a lot of slow powder loading data for the .45-70,
almost never for W748 or slower.

I do have this old DuPont book, too. Good info.

Bill

 

[Chris]

Pistolero, interesting tip about 748 in the .45/70. I've got an older metal can of it here and never did anything with it. The low pressure aspect interests me and I will definitely be trying it, thanks.

 

[Pistolero]

I use a mag primer, just because it is large quantity of ball powder. Never tried with regular primer,
WLR would likely do well, too. In my GG it is a 1-2" for five shots kind of a load (at 100yds). Comes
down more to the jerk behind the trigger than the rifle and load. Well, at least in MY case!

Stout load, but the recoil is survivable......I ran the 405s up to 2100 fps and that is pure punishment,
not doing it again.

Hodgdon shows loads for Varget (similar to 4064) and H4895 (of course, similar to IMR4895) at 1850ish
velocities and 26,000 ish pressures with full cases at 55 gr with each. Seems like
these powders in that range all do just about the same thing in the .45-70 under a 405.

They use a 24" bbl, my GG is 18" IIRC.

Bill

 

[Chris]

Thanks. Yeah, like you I spent some time exploring max loads with LBT 400 but it was with RL 7 and 3031. Like you I am done with it, there's a limit and I don't need the power. I was talking to Veral Smith about the mold some years ago when new to .45/70, asked him about penetration, he said to the effect "son, if you lined 6 deer end to end you would still never find the bullet".

I made a post here somewhere that suggests that maybe a standing rest would work to take the slap out of the rifle... I might try that just to see. Anyway, these days I am having more fun with under 1600 fps. Actually, 13 gr. Unique makes a nice accurate plinking load.

 

[Pistolero]

I often recommend 10-12 gr of Unique under a 405 cast as a nice load for .45-70, if asked
by friends.
I came very close to shooting through a wildebeest with this load and a 405 Rem JSP. Fully
expanded under the far side hide after breaking both shoulders. I am almost certain that
a cast would have exited on the same shot.

Bill