Is the Full Wadcutter Dead?

[Lost Dog]

Back in the 70's I picked up an Ideal mould #358495 and used it for my own loading and later, in the 80's, for my ammo business when a dealer and class 6 manufacturer. That old Ideal two hole mould turned out likely a half ton or more back in the day as they say. I still cast and shoot the 358495 today as it's an accurate projectile.


My question now is the full wadcutter a thing of the past due to the increased use of heavyweight SWC's in pistols? I see here there are some folks mentioning full wadcutter casting and loading, but not as much as big heavy rounds appear in posts and replies. And the mould I have is yet another discontinued one. I suspect because of the flat base as opposed to the current Lyman wadcutter with the beveled base.

Comments gentlemen?

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
NO ! In my 38's that is my CC bullet. Ideal 358432 is the number. Drops about 165 grains using my range lead. Makes a nice deep hole on impact under 5 yards. Expands and I seriously doubt will exit.
Same is carried in a S&W 357 mag Airweight 5 shot. (forget the model) Propelled at 850 fps made of range scrap. I have complete confidence in this cast bullet.
On the other side I do not shoot Bullseye . If I was so inclined I would use this same mold as it seems very accurate in every revolver I load it into. Makes an excellent plinker and close up hunting load. Tears a nasty hole in ground hogs. Does not cycle real well in the Marlin Carbine. Going to try it in the Rossi when we get back north this summer.
Mike in Peru

 

[KHornet]

For target work to 25, wadcutters are very accurate. I find them easy to cast. Never shot any thing but paper with WC's, but I think that as Mike says, bet it would tear a nasty hole in a chuck!

 

[Ian]

I still use them in my .38s.

The advantage is lots of bearing surface, good alignment = good short-range accuracy, and the reduced powder space makes powder position a moot problem.

 

[Maven]

Maybe not "dead," but not as versatile as a SWC? Also, while I like WC's, my 2 .38cal. WC molds (Cramer & RCBS) are only 2 cav. and my 1 .44cal. (~269gr. B & M) is a single cav. whereas my 2 SWC molds are Lee TL 6-bangers, which really ups my production [and use]. Btw, the .44cal. B & M has yet to drop a bad CB even when cold while the Cramer, by way of contrast, is very temperamental. Moreover, the RCBS is more accurate when seated backwards and then [roll] crimped in the base band. In short, in my circumstances the WC isn't defunct, but merely outnumbered by SWC's + the latter are about as accurate in my guns as the former.

 

[9.3X62AL]

What Maven said. I may not have fired a WC bullet in 20 years, though I did load up 50 each in 38 Special and 357 Mag (mid-level) using #358432 a couple years back. They turned up a few weeks ago as I unloaded boxes from the most recent move. They will be fired off shortly.

The SWCs range better and shoot just as accurately as the WCs. SWCs are better general-purpose bullets for me.

 

[Bret4207]

The WC isn't dead, it's just not as popular as it was once. Same for the standard RN. For target work there's nothing wrong with either, but there's nothing wrong with an SWC or FP either, until it comes to scoring bullseye targets, and some SWCs cut a nice round hole.

 

[Farmerjim]

I have an old Lyman 4 cavity WC. I think it is 148 grains. Haven't cast one in 45 years. Has anybody here PC'ed or Hi-Teked one?

 

[Todd M]

I just picked up a lee 429-208 grain WC mold off eBay, discontinued and glad to find it! Have not had the time to cast with it yet, but looking forward to blasting squirrels in my garden with it this summer.

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
If you desire more powder space just seat out in the first grease groove. Have a S&W model 13 3 inch. Load 38 Special brass with the 358432 seated out and works like a champ. Nice load for hauling about and not being concerned over "over penetration".
Mike in Peru

 

[Ben]

The wadcutter cast bullet is like " bell bottom jeans ", there was a time when it was a dominate bullet at the range on anyday.

There was a time that I shot 500 W/C's a month.
No longer, ( and I don't wear bell bottom jeans anymore either.)

I guess that life is about change .

 

[Maven]

"The wadcutter cast bullet is like bell bottom jeans...."

You mean the bell bottoms are no longer in style? OMG, I mustn't have got the memo. What to do? What to do? (sent from my Blue Fang equipped Yugo).

 

[Lost Dog]

Well then, I'll have to go locate me some bellbottoms as I just cast a mess of 358495's to size, load, and actually shoot. But then again it doesn't bother me that I'm old fashioned. I don't own an autoloader pistol. The closest thing to a progressive press here is a 60's Spar-T turret press for my old wheelguns. And both my centerfire rifles are usually loaded on a Lyman 310 tong tool or maybe with an old Spartan single stage. About 66% of my weapons don't even use cartridges. So I guess I am sorta old fashioned.

 

[Ben]

I will say this about wadcutters.

Some of the best groups I've ever fired at 25 yards weren't with Keith Style SWC's, they were fired with wadcutters.

Ben

 

[telebasher]

Wadcutters fly straight and true out of my Handi- Rifle. Who cares about 22 shortage, wadcutters tear up less meat than 22's anyway.

 

[Jeff Michel]

In 32 S&W long and 38 Special 99% of my shooting is with full wadcutters. Thrifty, accurate to forty-fifty yards and excellent for small game. I only get the SWC's out for .357 deer cartridges. Never owned a pair of bell bottoms either

 

[Lost Dog]

Never owned a pair of bell bottoms either

Me neither but I thought it might be a forum requirement!

 

[Jeff Michel]

That would be a pretty unfortunate decision on the part of the moderators, at least in my case. I can fill out a pair of bell bottoms pretty well, probably way to well.
FWIW, my avatar has me with my Ruger 77/357 and a pretty dead badger. 358432 in a 38 special case, 4 grains of 231 at an honest fifty yards. I use the combo for walking Prairie dog towns, keeps my offhand shooting in trim.

 

[Ben]

A little work on my Lyman 35863
I have 6 cavity wadcutter molds for 38/357, if I want volume casting, I'll get one of them out and can have a " pile of bullets " real fast if I need volume.

The IDEAL / Lyman 35863 has a good reputation for accuracy and I want to see just how well it can shoot. I plan to cast from a single cavity to minimize weight variation when I test this one.

I am looking for precision right now, not volume. Right now, I plan to cast from only the " front cavity" of my 2 cavity 35863 mold.

I bought this thick sprue plate several years ago here on the forum, from who I cannot remember? The sprue plate holds heat very well and cast well with any Lyman two cavity mold that I've used it on.

The sprue in the "front sprue hole " of the plate wanted to stick a bit and the sprue hole in the plate lacked about 1/16" being cut deep enough and had tool marks. I felt that a combination of all this was what was causing my sprue to stick. This can really slow down your casting. I just hate a sprue that sticks ! !

It seemed that the sprue wanted to be torn rather than be cut smoothly on the base of the bullet. In my opinion, this is something that is undesirable and degrades accuracy . Nothing to do but make the necessary changes to the plate.

Today I decided to tackle the problem and took my 6 flute , 60 degree, HS steel counter sink and recut the front hole in the sprue plate at VERY slow rpm with plenty of oil and cleaning using an old tooth brush of the chips and debris during the cutting process.



WOW ! ! What a difference this modification has made in the way this mold cast now. No sticking of the sprue and clean cut bullet bases.

If you have a sprue plate problem and your sprues are sticking, this will cure the problem ! !

See photos below :

Ben

 

[9.3X62AL]

I have no doubt that good wadcutters can outshoot a SWC. Just because I can't make them do so doesn't mean that a whole lot of other folks are similarly encumbered.

I DID load some good wadcutter ammo a long time ago--for a friend's Walther GSP-C in 32 S&W Long. IIRC, the load used Hornady HBWCs atop 1.7 grains of WW-231 for about 725 FPS. 1500 of those critters. I got to shoot 50 of them, then do a refill. ACCURATE.