RBHarter
West Central AR
Ian's remarks about minimum die sizes and being plated even smaller reminded of what I often tell the newbies about the case gauges .
Major manufacturers start with a new reamer for chambers , dies , or gauges . In a perfect arrangement the reamers for chambers would finish 20-25 chambers be sharpened and repeat 2x , sharpen again , cut 20-25 steel gauges maybe 40 in brass or aluminum . Then they would be recut for die reamers sharpened once more for straight dies and once for small base dies . After that they would be roughing reamers .
Unfortunately we have a dozen companies cutting chambers and they have different tooling sources for the reamers and their own standards .
The die makers most likely have a similar arrangement .
Of course this brings us back to the maximum sized tool and sharpening until it's a minimum sized tool . Who knows what the chamber gauges cut to .
In any case , no pun , the best situation is a minimum chamber and a maximum die and both the same shape , as far as case life goes anyway . The opposite of course is a poor combination and match chambers may get by just fine with a nominally middle cut die .
All in all it's a wonder we can get anything to fit back in a chamber it didn't come from . It's also fairly amazing that factory ammo doesn't rattle in half the chambers like a bb in a box car .
I have several sets of same cartridge dies and have had to have a sizer die set for a particular chamber that just wouldn't play nice with normal practice . At the other end I had a second that I don't think I ever full length sized more than kissing the shoulder . I did have 2 sizers set up for 06' then . I still load for the match or nearly so 760 , rebarreled the Savage , sold the 03' , and haven't really started on Mom's M70 but the soft size set up and Savage brass is a good pairing for the rifles made in 57 and 65' . The 760 will barely take its own fired cases back and needs to be hard cam sized in the smallest of 2 RCBS sizers and I doubt very much that the Herters/CH dies will get it done although it's fine in the 57' M70 without a contact cam over . That 760 almost drove me to to a small base die .
I think the 45-70 Redding may have been a special order sizer only hitting about equal parts of the neck and base but not the case walls at all .
Meanwhile the stock RCBS set at book adjustment gives full contact full length , backed off 1.5 turns it provides just a scuff full length with a well suited neck dia . I did steal the expander spud out of the 458 WM dies as it's .457 vs the .456 spud that was in the expander die OM . I don't know how the 1895G chamber compares to others as I don't really have access to others for comparison . This one appears to be from the last of the Marlin parts in Illion NY . .460 chambers freely and 2.12 case length doesn't seem to be a problem .
Of 4 or 5 223s no functional difference is noted however one needed be set back , a Savage , just enough to bury the roll stamp . Set up per factory instructions allowed the long bolt gun cases to run in gas guns , backed off to just touch so far they have shared brass . Perhaps the GI nature of the cartridge forces a narrower tolerance limit in tools and chambers .
Major manufacturers start with a new reamer for chambers , dies , or gauges . In a perfect arrangement the reamers for chambers would finish 20-25 chambers be sharpened and repeat 2x , sharpen again , cut 20-25 steel gauges maybe 40 in brass or aluminum . Then they would be recut for die reamers sharpened once more for straight dies and once for small base dies . After that they would be roughing reamers .
Unfortunately we have a dozen companies cutting chambers and they have different tooling sources for the reamers and their own standards .
The die makers most likely have a similar arrangement .
Of course this brings us back to the maximum sized tool and sharpening until it's a minimum sized tool . Who knows what the chamber gauges cut to .
In any case , no pun , the best situation is a minimum chamber and a maximum die and both the same shape , as far as case life goes anyway . The opposite of course is a poor combination and match chambers may get by just fine with a nominally middle cut die .
All in all it's a wonder we can get anything to fit back in a chamber it didn't come from . It's also fairly amazing that factory ammo doesn't rattle in half the chambers like a bb in a box car .
I have several sets of same cartridge dies and have had to have a sizer die set for a particular chamber that just wouldn't play nice with normal practice . At the other end I had a second that I don't think I ever full length sized more than kissing the shoulder . I did have 2 sizers set up for 06' then . I still load for the match or nearly so 760 , rebarreled the Savage , sold the 03' , and haven't really started on Mom's M70 but the soft size set up and Savage brass is a good pairing for the rifles made in 57 and 65' . The 760 will barely take its own fired cases back and needs to be hard cam sized in the smallest of 2 RCBS sizers and I doubt very much that the Herters/CH dies will get it done although it's fine in the 57' M70 without a contact cam over . That 760 almost drove me to to a small base die .
I think the 45-70 Redding may have been a special order sizer only hitting about equal parts of the neck and base but not the case walls at all .
Meanwhile the stock RCBS set at book adjustment gives full contact full length , backed off 1.5 turns it provides just a scuff full length with a well suited neck dia . I did steal the expander spud out of the 458 WM dies as it's .457 vs the .456 spud that was in the expander die OM . I don't know how the 1895G chamber compares to others as I don't really have access to others for comparison . This one appears to be from the last of the Marlin parts in Illion NY . .460 chambers freely and 2.12 case length doesn't seem to be a problem .
Of 4 or 5 223s no functional difference is noted however one needed be set back , a Savage , just enough to bury the roll stamp . Set up per factory instructions allowed the long bolt gun cases to run in gas guns , backed off to just touch so far they have shared brass . Perhaps the GI nature of the cartridge forces a narrower tolerance limit in tools and chambers .
