Lathe cutting tools

[Tomme boy]

What are some pieces that everyone should have? What do you like? Carbide or HSS? I am starting a list of things I will need to get started. Are those carbide bits that come brazed on any good? You see them in with many different lathes.

I remember using the HSS bits in school. I don't remember anything on how to grind them. One thing I do remember was the sliding tool mount with the single bolt on top. Really easy to adjust to center.

 

[Cherokee]

I don't know about others more experienced than I, but the Carbide tipped, brazed on, did not work to well for me. Maybe my inexperience but I did not have any problem with the HSS. The main thing is - they need to be sharp.

 

[Fiddler]

You'll need a diamond wheel to sharpen the carbide bits.

 

[Gary]

I have and use both, but mostly the kind with replaceable carbide inserts.

 

[RicinYakima]

The brazed on carbide bits didn't work for me either. One of the reasons was my small lathe would vibrate with not perfectly sharp carbide tips. Then the tip would break off micro-chips on the cutting edge and vibrate worse. EVery lathe book, and hundreds of videos, on how to grind HSS bits. You just need to buy protractor and gages.

 

[L Ross]

I have zero personal experience, none, but......my guild level gunsmith, master machinist that he is, uses only tool steel bits. He explained to me that carbide needs to run at high speed. He sharpens his own bits and has for decades.

Why or why did I waste my working years as a cop? To be able to blithely turn out works of art in a shop with casual aplomb is just mind boggling to me.

Need a screw to hold a Redfield 102K receiver sight on a Krag, no problem. Would you like a barrel extension for your Bergara B-14 .22 with it's truncated, New Age Ninja competition barrel so it looks and handles off hand like a rifle? No problem.

Oh he's retired now and can make his own projects and not feel guilty. Want to take a Martini and have a .30-30 with a Kreiger barrel? Call your buddy Kreiger up, get a blank and fit it to the Martini. Custom cast friendly throating, piece of cake.

A guy that can do anything in a metal working shop tells me he has limited use for carbide, I listen. One of his greatest laments these days is Chineseium steel. Apparently there are all kinds of inclusions and variable hard spots, and it is unpredictable. He hit something in the barrel extension he made as my Christmas present and busted a fluted reamer. Whatever that is. Seemed completely nonplussed. He apologized that there is a tiny score mark inside of the extension. It's a 5/16" hole for a .22 bullet to sneak through for crying out loud. He considered making a new one. Can you say perfectionist?

 

[rodmkr]

I grew up in an oil field machine shop.
Actually did, my Mother was the bookkeeper for my Father.
Had a playpen in the office.
My Father , Brother, and I never used anything but HSS.
Spent a week at a grinder learning how to grind my own tools.
Father was a hard teacher, until you got it right you kept practicing.
Lesson learned and never forgotten.
Spent an awful lot of time turning many types of steel and never found
one I could not turn with HSS.
I became an electrician in the Navy for 25 years but never have forgotten the
lesson learned.

rodmkr

 

[Brad]

I use mostly HSS. Yes it needs to be ground and resharpened but it works well with the slow speeds and low feeds we use on smaller lathes.
My most used insert carbide tooling Is for threading. I have a tool I use for hogging off large amounts quickly but I can get a much better finish with HSS so it is seeing less and less use as time goes by.
I got good white wheels for my grinder and now grinding tools is much faster with less heat. The wheels wear fast bu I can afford to replace them every 3-4 years.

Get the tool shaped right, on center, and sharp and you will be amazed at what HSS can do. The insert tools are more helpful on large lathes using higher speeds and feeds. Might be because that is what they are made for?

HSS is also far cheaper. Good insert tooling isn’t cheap!

 

[Rick H]

HSS and Cobalt, but I must confess that my 9x24 mini lathe makes much use of 3/8" carbide insert tooling. The little triangular shaped inserts with chip breaker cast into them last a long time and when dull, just turn them a notch. Three times and toss them out. It helps that I had about 40 inserts given to me gratis. At that price I have been spoiled and use them on steel, aluminum, stainless steel, and even wood.....at all speeds. I have not gone through those 40 inserts these past 25 years. Yeah they last a long time for a hobbyist machinist.

 

[Joshua]

At work we use all carbide in the prototyping fabrication/machine shop that I work for. We only have two journeymen in our working group, a machinist and a welder (I’m the dumb welder). It’s been a really good opportunity for me to work hand in hand with a 60 year old machinist who’s been at it for 44 years.

I’ve brought up this subject with him before. I mentioned that on the hobby machine forum sites many people recommend HSS on the smaller machines. He agreed that you give up sharpness when using carbide, but on our work machines you make up for it with horse power. He said that he would never give up carbide, he then chuckled and said he hadn’t had to use his own money to buy a piece machine tooling for most of his career. He also hasn’t touched a bench top machine in over twenty-five years.

So basically my plan is what Brad is doing. I will grind HSS for external cutting, and thread with carbide.

I’m not sure about boring bars? I need to read more.

 

[smokeywolf]

Tomme, carbide is essential for higher horsepower, higher production lathes. For home shop use, "HSS-cobalt" is the ticket. Cleveland Mo-Max used to be a top brand, but I've read that they sent production of HSS toolbits to India and what has come back is worse than most of what is produced in China. Older Cleveland cutters are good. I think Chicago-Latrobe still makes toolbits and if you run across old Circle C high speed tooling they are or were very good.
Two other cutter materials that I've used with good results on both large and small lathes is: Stellite and Tantalum-Tungsten (AKA "Tan-Tung").

If carbide is not run at higher speeds with a rigid setup, instead of the carbide cutting the material, the material "crushes" the cutting edge of the carbide. That is what RicinYakima is describing in post #5.

Good and current info from the guys above. Not to minimize the expertise and experience of anyone else, all good advice, but I know that Brad and Ian are natural and intuitive machinists with current experience on small/smallish lathes.

Joshua, you're best off using a solid carbide boring bar with a triangular carbide insert. If not going too deep, a one piece bar such as those used in a boring head.

 

[Ian]

As was said save the Carbide insert tooling for production work on heavy machines running precisely calculated speeds and feeds bordering on redline.

I use exclusively HSS for threading, boring, and turning. I grind it on an ordinary bench grinder with dressed wheels, you don't need fancy to git'er'dun, but you DO need to understand cutter geometry and how to set up the tool on center or slightly above or below depending on what you're doing. An Arkansas stone is essential for final sharpening and fine finish. If you can't shave hair with it, don't try cutting steel with it.

Insert tooling is very handy, and HSS inserts are available just like sintered carbide, however there is nothing as handy as being able to grind exactly the form tool you need for a certain job, on the spot, and not need several thousand dollars worth of insert tooling and bits to cover your bases.

Get a fishtail gauge and learn how to grind your own HSS threading tools.

Anything you are ever likely to need to do on a lathe has been covered very well by Tubalcain (mrpete222) on utoob. This old Tony also has some shirt, funny, and to the point videos on some lathe basics.

Hobby machining is very different from production work. We're like a job shop but with the luxury of time. Keep that in mind when looking at tools and techniques and don't confuse the way the production pros do it with always being the best or most practical approach to what you do in your home shop.

 

[Ian]

In order to make recommendations on tooling, it would help to know what size of lathe you have or will get, what kind of tool post it has (rocker, lantern, Aloris, etc).

 

[Brad]

I find grinding tools to be part of the process. You learn what works and what doesn’t.
The wheels I got for my grinder cut faster and cooler because they are more frangible. They don’t clog near as fast. Down side is the wear is faster.

Tool on center makes a huge difference. Sometimes things just aren’t going right and then you get on center and it all comes together.

I view the machine tools as being a lot like casting. You spend time learning and understanding what is happening and it makes everything else easier. The process is more important than the end result to me.

 

[Tomme boy]

8x16 is what I am looking at. OXA quick change tool post.

OK, another ? if anyone knows. I picked up a old in perfect condition craftsman 1hp block grinder with a factory sharpening jig on it. I don't know what the jig is for and can't find much info at all about it. It still has the original wheels on it and are almost new. This thing has some major power over the Jet branded 8" I have used for years.

 

[JustJim]

Got a part # on the jig? Or on the grinder? Might have a friend who would know.

 

[Bret4207]

8x16 is what I am looking at. OXA quick change tool post.

OK, another ? if anyone knows. I picked up a old in perfect condition craftsman 1hp block grinder with a factory sharpening jig on it. I don't know what the jig is for and can't find much info at all about it. It still has the original wheels on it and are almost new. This thing has some major power over the Jet branded 8" I have used for years.

Got a picture?

On the lathe, for smaller, light lathes, I'd go with HSS, You can get preground tools from Little Machine Shop and others. I've tried carbide but in a small lath there isn't enough rigidity in the set up to work well. The brazed tools worked way better than the inserts, but still not like HSS. You want sharp tools, proper feed and speed and you have to be aware. It's not like a 16" Leblond you can turn the power feed on and get a cup of coffee.

 

[Tomme boy]

It is a mx210v. The prices have gone up almost $100 since Nov.

 

[Bret4207]

HSS would be my choice, something like this- https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2250 You might be able to go with 3/8" or even 1/2" depending on the tool holder and center line height. Personally, the smaller the tool, the easier it is for me to remember I'm dealing with a light lathe and not a "real" one. I have a tendency to get a little aggressive when I put a 1/2" tool in my little Atlas.

 

[RicinYakima]

I have used one of these for 10 years and been very happy with it:

The Diamond Tool Holder

www.eccentricengineering.com.au