Limits to avoid target damage.

[Snakeoil]

Looking to institute velocity and hardness limits for our metallic silhouette matches. We watched PC bullets out of a .308 doing just under 2000 fps put some nasty duvets in new targets.

Anyone with experience with this who has suggestions is encouraged to comment. Thanks.

 

[Gary]

Get AR500 steel targets

 

[Winelover]

Get AR500 steel targets

I use them only for 22 LR targets, right off the back porch.



Sand berm when I want to catch and recover/recycle the cast bullets.



Those steel swingers in the fore ground are not AR 500 but rated for 44 Magnum. They are all dented up just from 22 LR. IIRC, shot them once with 357 Magnum and put a deep divot in that 3/8" thick soft steel. Never did that again.

 

[Rick]

Mild steel is only good for 22lr. AR500 minimum 1/2 inch thick for ranges out to 100 yards. Bare minimum 3/8 inch thick AR500 100 yards and beyond.

 

[MW65]

At our club, we have caliber restrictions for jkt soft points vs cast. No velocity restrictions basically. Will see what I can send you...

 

[Snakeoil]

Am familiar with AR plate. Have purchased it before at other clubs where dimples in targets create a much greater risk to shooters. Given the size and number of targets we tend to purchase, specifying AR plate can ad to the cost. Plus, AR really needs to be waterjet cut as plasma cutters anneal the edges.

Thanks for the replies so far. The range rules sent as PM are interesting. I would imagine the clubs targets are severely dimpled unless they are all AR plate.

 

[popper]

AR550 and shoot farther away. AR500 is limited to > 200yds for 308W. Several companies do the waterjet cut.

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[RBHarter]

A 2000 fps MV 255 gr will make a "fuzzy dimple" in AR 500 it's more of a contoured mark really 1/4 crs will dimple with a hit from 25 yd with a 36 cal 1858 and 130 gr 2100 fps 27 cal will punch a 30 cal hole at 100 yd .

For zero damage I would place a limit of 1500ftlb ME for the AR 500 targets or 1100 ftlb at 100 .

Everything I ever worked I set 1000 ftlb at 100 yd because that was the requirement for big game. With a .300 bc that takes 1900 fps with a 200 gr bullet .
A .285 bc .277 130 needs 2200 fps MV . I would imagine 7mm is right there also .

Alloy will play a roll in target damage as well a 2000 fps lino type is going to poof and fragment , slip a little copper in WQWW it will liquefy but does so at a rate at a rate considerably slower than the energy transfer which leads into the dwell time and cratering effect. Hence the suggestion of the 1200 ftlb muzzle energy.

 

[300BLK]

My local club has steel swingers on both the pistol and rifle ranges. On the pistol range its all at 29 yards, and pistol caliber carbines are allowed. On the rifle range, its 50 -100-200-300 yards. ALL is 1/2" AR500, and has held up pretty well considering there is no range officer to prevent green tips or armor piercing from being shot. The 50 yard targets get used pretty hard and show noticeably more damage than 100 yards, and the 200 and 300 yard targets seem immune. These targets are out all year and the range is open 8am-dusk every day. Membership has ballooned from 1700-2500 over the past several years, and we've had minimal target loss. Failures are around holes and sharp angles. Targets that are 3-4x high vs wide will bow, but can be reversed.

Forget using chains and bolts on swingers. Chains will get shot off, even grade 8 bolts stretch when double nutted, and have their heads shot off frequently. We use J hangers over 1" rebar.

The highpower silhouettes used by clubs were usually (20 years ago) T1 (not as tough as AR500) with 1/2" chickens at 200m, 1/2" pigs at 300m, and 3/8" turkeys and rams at 385m and 500m respectively. "One club that I've shot at 25+ years turns their standing silhouettes every month to prevent bowing.

 

[waco]

I laser cut my own targets at work from 3/8” AR-400 steel. I shoot them at any distance with any handgun stuff but keep a 100 yard minimum for rifle stuff.

 

[Snakeoil]

Hence the suggestion of the 1200 ftlb muzzle energy.

I found a muzzle energy calculator online that makes like much easier. ME for the member who has been denting the targets is just under 1800 ft-lbs. The load/bullet I shoot in my 03 is about 900 ft-lbs. My .32-40 is just under 700 ft-lbs. I shoot both of those out to 500 yds with great success and have out shot the guy with the hot .308 regularly. But he definitely has an advantage when the wind is howling. So, I like your 1200 ft-lb limit. I ran a few other numbers thru the calculator, and it should pretty much cover all the bases.

 

[JonB]

A few years ago, I bought some swinger steel targets, they were on a closeout for $12. The package said they were rated for magnum handgun cartridges. First time I took one out to the range with some light 41 mag loads to be shot out of a 3" S&W, The very first shot, I busted the plate right off (at the weld). So now I just use them for 22LR or 38 spl.

 

[L Ross]

I have lots of targets here at Thorn Hollow. The cost and availability of AR 500 would severely limit the number of targets I can deploy. My centerfire targets are mostly 3/8" thick mild steel and I have a velocity limit of sub 1,800 fps. I still get some dimpling with loads near that upper limit if the targets are to close, but not cratering.
1/4" mild steel is limited to .22 shooting.
I have a set of AR 500 swingers I bought a few years ago for use with jacketed and hot cast stuff. Two each of 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12" gongs. Just not as much fun as knock downs. These came with belting straps that far outlast chain. Do you ever wonder what championship caliber, (pun), shooters your friends would be if the bullseyes were made of chain, or 2x4s, our steel fence posts, or rails, or anything that is where you don't necessarily want a bullet to strike?

 

[Snakeoil]

Well, we have targets that hang from welded on hooks as well as bolted on chains. We shoot white or black targets depending on the weather and berm conditions. We used to paint one side white and the other black to make it easy. We found that when the hanger was on the face being shot, the weld would eventually crack and break. Keeping them on the back stopped this. We have also moved to chains with forged hooks and clevises. In the past we tried repair links to fasten the target to the chains, but they would fail over time, purely from the shock. Clevises seem to have solved that one. We've had good luck with chains on the heavier targets.

Over the years, we have had hangers fracture. We have had plates fracture. Chickens were the most prone to cracking since at only 200 yds and shooters shooting 500 gr and larger bullets, they tend to take a beating. We weld them up, grind them smooth and just keep using them.

There is not a lot of science used in our target buying and building. Many were made by members. Some were commercially made. Guys guess at ways to make them better. Some ideas work and others don't. I try to put some true thought into the process, but I'm only one guy and when you are dealing with a bunch of old guys, they tend to think that they know best and do things their way. You can argue or just let it go and deal with problems as they pop up.

I'm going to call a local steel supplier now to get some prices.

 

[Rick H]

I have a 4" hanging (with chains) 3/8" thick AR500 gong at 50 yds. It has stood up well to 45 cal. soft lead roundballs that leave the muzzle at a bit over 2000 fps with no damage. Well, they are hard on the powdercoat paint on the surface. No dimpling or damage to the plate itself. It also takes a 225 gr. 54 cal. Roundballs at 1800 fps with no damage but the darned things wrap the gong around the crossbar. There has to be a better way to hang the thing than chains.

 

[Snakeoil]

I have a 4" hanging (with chains) 3/8" thick AR500 gong at 50 yds. It has stood up well to 45 cal. soft lead roundballs that leave the muzzle at a bit over 2000 fps with no damage. Well, they are hard on the powdercoat paint on the surface. No dimpling or damage to the plate itself. It also takes a 225 gr. 54 cal. Roundballs at 1800 fps with no damage but the darned things wrap the gong around the crossbar. There has to be a better way to hang the thing than chains.

50 yds is close. Ball/bullet has not lost much energy. We use 3 inch targets at 100 yds and with big BPCR bullets, they will spin like a kid's shooting toy shooting gallery and often slow at 12:00 and then fall into the dirt. These have rigid bar type hangers welded to them.

When I was shooting cowboy, the targets had one hole thru them and a 1/2 inch bolt. between the target and the stanchion was an old car valve spring. That worked pretty good. But we still had issues from time to time.

 

[RBHarter]

I bought a dozen or so from these guys . Flat rate shipping and about 3/4 the price of the shelf pieces .
I think they offer hangers that fit the 1" conduit that are cut out of the same AR 500&550 as the targets . 3,4,6,8,12" gongs . I have a couple gnomes too . Misc novelty gongs .

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[L Ross]

Well, we have targets that hang from welded on hooks as well as bolted on chains. We shoot white or black targets depending on the weather and berm conditions. We used to paint one side white and the other black to make it easy. We found that when the hanger was on the face being shot, the weld would eventually crack and break. Keeping them on the back stopped this. We have also moved to chains with forged hooks and clevises. In the past we tried repair links to fasten the target to the chains, but they would fail over time, purely from the shock. Clevises seem to have solved that one. We've had good luck with chains on the heavier targets.

Over the years, we have had hangers fracture. We have had plates fracture. Chickens were the most prone to cracking since at only 200 yds and shooters shooting 500 gr and larger bullets, they tend to take a beating. We weld them up, grind them smooth and just keep using them.

There is not a lot of science used in our target buying and building. Many were made by members. Some were commercially made. Guys guess at ways to make them better. Some ideas work and others don't. I try to put some true thought into the process, but I'm only one guy and when you are dealing with a bunch of old guys, they tend to think that they know best and do things their way. You can argue or just let it go and deal with problems as they pop up.

I'm going to call a local steel supplier now to get some prices.

Take a defibrillator with you.

 

[Snakeoil]

Take a defibrillator with you.

Nope. Talked to a local supplier. Big outfit and very gun friendly. They don't have AR in stock. So quoted me A-572 which is a strong structural steel. Said that AR would be about double based on past experience. They don't use a lot of AR plate.

I asked for a quote for 24 round targets.
5/8' thick - 4 each 3 inch and 4 inch
1/2" thick - 4 each 6, 9, 12 and 15 inches

Total $293 with tax.

They use CNC plasma cutters so they can add ears and holes as we desire.

 

[Snakeoil]

I bought a dozen or so from these guys . Flat rate shipping and about 3/4 the price of the shelf pieces .
I think they offer hangers that fit the 1" conduit that are cut out of the same AR 500&550 as the targets . 3,4,6,8,12" gongs . I have a couple gnomes too . Misc novelty gongs .

XSteel Targets-America's Best AR500 and AR550 Steel Target Manufacture

Industry leading AR500 and AR550 steel shooting targets. Our products are laser cut from the highest quality material you can buy. From reactive moving targets to stationary plinking steel we have it all. Custom cut orders welcome! Get your premium targets in round, square, moving or fun novelty...

www.xsteeltargets.com

Went to their site. Took our 24 target list and priced it. 2 sizes we wanted needed to move up to the next size. So not 100% accurate, but only off by a few bucks. Their price for AR targets is $1463 plus shipping. Our supplier said it would be about double their quote for A-572, so about $600.00.