Linux

[rodmkr]

Do we have anyone that not only uses it but has installed it.
I would like to try it and maybe do away with windows 10.
Have an older tower with pentium4 processor and 1gig of memory.
Have tried several times to load Linux Mint on it but always get a lockup
or a safe mode only response.
What am I doing wrong?
is there a site that gives troubleshooting info?

rodmkr

 

[JWFilips]

Linux is a great operating system to replace windows I installed it on an older Windows laptop. However I did not have the patience to learn the system well so I just gave up and stayed with Mac OS which is better than all of them!

 

[popper]

Linux Mint Forums - Index page

You may not have enough memory but this is the help forum page. Easy to install but it must download a lot of stuff to get running and many internet (wireless) drivers don't work - you have to get the drivers via another computer. then transfer (usb stick) to linux computer.
Should have basic video driver to get started. If win and linux, there is a grub booter that you have to choose linux. You also have to make a linux partition on the hard drive. Some versions use Wine (sandbox) to 'run' linux as an 'app'.
Of course to load from usb stick, the BIOS needs to be set for usb boot - that some older BIOS won't do. IIRC I had to use a 5 mb usb stick.
Get used to the sudo command! Makes you a temp. superuser (admin privileges).
The installer is boot,MM and grub files *.efi
You also must make sure to download the 32bit version.

 

[Bret4207]

I tried doing the same thing recently Rdmkr, and I got stuck about where you are I think. My IT guy says it's easiest if you get a clean system to install it on, or at least have someone geeky to install it. Apparently using it isn't all that difficult to learn, but getting it set up kind of is.

I also know this- the temporary (I forget the right term) install I did 8-9 years back on my wifes laptop was pretty much "Put the disc in, start the computer and choose Linux" and I had the whole thing done. I was on the internet with it. The same disc now won't do that even on that laptop. Things change, updates and such I imagine, and my current laptop BLOCKS any attempt to install it. It's pre-set to do that according to my IT guy.

 

[hporter]

I installed Linux Mint under a Virtual Box emulation on my Mac a few weeks ago. I have been very impressed. The last time I looked earnestly at Linux was back in 1999. It has come a long way since then.

I also installed a light weight version of Linux (not Mint) on a couple of old PC mini laptops. It runs fine.

I have been a Mac user since 1999, and will remain so into the foreseeable future. But I know at some point I will have to sever ties with them. I am getting tired of all the lock outs of my accounts because I refuse to "opt in" to their 2 factor authentication.

If you want to play with it, download Virtual Box from Oracle, its free. It runs on Windows, Macintosh and Linux. Then download a Linux version you want to try, it's free too.

I use Virtual box to run Windows XP, Linux Mint and OSX 10.7 on my main Macintosh computer. It is rock solid, and a useful program.

I have also enjoyed using Libre Office on Linux. It prompted me to download Libre Office for Macintosh and develop a relational database to replace my Filemaker reloading database.

I had to go back and forth with Microsoft today about 12 times to figure out how to release my personal domain from the online Exchange account I had subscribed too. That, and having to spend two days uploading updates everytime I fire up my windows laptop has convinced me that Linux is in my future.

The only problem is you have to be a bit of a geek to figure out some of it. Fortunately there is quite a bit of info online to assist with that.

One of these days I am going to install Linux on one of my Mac's, to give it a full review running natively. It still has rough edges, but I find the older I get, the less I "need" in my computer operating system. I bought my first PC in 1985, so I have been through most of it. I ran a CPM operating system while at the university getting my degree. I had a Tandy with a tape recorder for storage before that. I can deal with a little geekiness, even in this old dog.

 

[popper]

Ios is linux ish.

 

[KeithB]

Our basic in-shop computer is a Raspberry Pi running a Unix/Linux variant. Been rock solid, we use it to access the net using a Google Chrome variant, but it also comes with an office type suite. Except for CAD it does 99% of everything else we need to do. The basic Raspberry Pi 4 is about $50 and can drive two monitors, has WiFi, Bluetooth, four USB ports, and audio output. Add a used monitor, a 5V power supplu, a keyboard and mouse and you're good to go. Lot's of this stuff can be had used for almost free. We have about $100 tied up in a PC that nobody even bothers to write malware for!

It is no harder to learn to use than any Win or Mac OS.

 

[hporter]

We have about $100 tied up in a PC that nobody even bothers to write malware for!

That is truly amazing. If I remember correctly, the PI is a little PC board with all the controllers onboard. Do you put it in an enclosure? Since Apple came out with the Mac mini, I haven't bought anything else. I like the headless machine, small foot print principle. I have toyed with the idea of doing something like that with a Linux underpinning. That would be wonderful to have something so small as what you are discussing.

I am glad you mentioned the absence of malware, as that is something I have been wondering about. With a Mac, I haven't had to run anti-virus or malware software ever. On a PC, I wouldn't dream of doing that. Every time I get out my newest Windows laptop to charge the battery, it literally takes a day to update all the software patches and virus profiles with all the reboots involved.

I have been amazed at the quantity of free software available for Linux machines. I have downloaded a couple photoshop type programs and a movie editing program to try them out. With the Apple system, if you buy from the official app store, the software is pretty well vetted - or has seemed to be over the years. I am still trying to wrap my head around this free software that seems to work so well. Mainly around whether there is any malware or backdoors in them? When you download them from the Linux distribution program are they vetted at all?

Also, would the Pi have the horsepower to run a photoshop type program? You mentioned that you don't use it for CAD. I am running Mint virtually on my mac, and the little windows mini laptops have Atom 32 bit processors and limited ram running XLXE and Bionic Pup. So I really haven't seen what it can do running natively installed.

I have a drawer full of older windows laptops that I have used for work. I need to pull out an Intel I7 unit and wipe the drive and install Linux on an SSD drive. It seems like those older laptops hang for 10 minutes when booted while Microsoft sends you the alert that they don't support Windows 7 or 8 anymore. So it wouldn't break my heart to wipe the drives. My virtual installation of Windows XP on my Mac does just about everything I need a PC to do. I can even run my CAD program on it.

As an aside (sorry for the linux thread drift)- what CAD program do you use? Is yours Linux based?

We used autodesk autocad in the 1990's and 2000's in the oil patch before some of the other modeling programs like PDMS took off. I think you use yours for CNC work. That is another subject that would be fun to learn more about. I remember back in 1994 my buddy and I had to design and draw up a gear box for an 800 hp thruster to provide position indication feedback for the Dynamic Positioning system on our ship. We drew it in an R11 or R12 version of Autocad, and had a local machine shop in Aransas Pass build it from our drawings. I learned a lot about tolerances and the details a busy machinist needed to get your job turned around quickly.

 

[KeithB]

The Rpi is about the size of a deck of cards, we have ours in a little red and white plastic enclosure that just snaps together. It is a single board computer with everything I mentioned in place. The board also has a double row of pins that can handle various type of I/Os so you can hook up sensors and touch screens, turn on relays and LEDs and such. One of my colleagues at the Univerxity used an earlier model Pi to set up a touchscreen exhibit at the local museum. It boots off an SSD(?) memory card in less than 30 seconds. The museum people loved it, they just flipped the ON switch when they came in and the OFF switch when they left. Nothing corrupted in the process. Do that to your WIN7/8/10 box!

I've read articles about using Pis with their I/O capability to interface with robots and CNC machines and other industrial hardware to control various manufacturing processes. They won't replace a real PLC but for the price they can be real useful. I'm betting a handy person could run an automated reloading system with one for example.

The user interface on the Pi is graphically based and is very similar to Windows although there is a command line option. My shop partner is not really a computer guy but he has no trouble using it when needed. Our Haas user manuals are PDFs, we can pull them up on the Pi w/no problem.

We use Cadkey98 for CAD, its 20+ years old and written for WIN98 but I'm running it on two different WIN7 migrated to WIN10 machines with no problem. CadKey started as a FULL 3D program running under DOS 2.1 and fought AutoCad up until about 2000. As a student I could buy the full program for less than $100. It does everything I need, with that and a text editor I've written literally thousands of CNC programs for both lathes and mills. True, we don't do 3D sculpting or drive 4, 5, .... axis machines, but for 99% of what we want to do it's enough. And we take work from the shops that can't do simple programming without a $5000/seat CAD/CAM system and have to charge accordingly.

Don't know about running any other programs on the Pi such as a Photoshop type, when I got ours the only model we could get had 2Gb of RAM, the 4 Gb units were out of stock. That was a couple years ago and I haven't kept up with their development. I'm guessing memory might be the bottleneck here but I don't have any experience with photoshop type programs.

 

[RicinYakima]

Every time I get out my newest Windows laptop to charge the battery, it literally takes a day to update all the software patches and virus profiles with all the reboots involved.

Amazing, my 2012 HP with Win 10 downloads and reboots once a week. And it does it in about 5 minutes. But then I have no "start" programs, and work off of Avast Secure.

 

[hporter]

Keith,

Thank you for your detailed response. I've used PLC's for most of my career to run vessel control systems and dynamic positioning controls systems for offshore drilling rigs. The idea of a minuscule little controller like that being able to do so much is very interesting to me.

And I will have to look up CadKey. I have been using Autocad since the DOS versions, so I never looked around at the competition. And you are so very correct about the $5k Cad system license seat that you never own, just lease month to month....

Speaking of startup time, my first experience with Unix was a French dynamic positioning system that we bought to display in our training lab. It ran on Unix, and took about 5 minutes to boot. Back then we were running our DP system under DOS with a custom C++ operating program. It would literally boot in seconds if something ever happened. I always felt bad for the guy at the operating controls of that French system, because when you are drilling offshore with no winches in deep water, you are relying on staying on location with GPS, acoustics and thrusters. If you go down, it is important to get right back up again!

And Ric - I left out the part that I only fire up my Windows 10 machine about once a year. It is amazing how many updates come out over that period of time. If you are a daily Windows user, I am sure it would be no problem whatsoever to keep up.

I dislike Windows, but I have to acknowledge my bias and admit that they actually work well for many people.

 

[Bret4207]

Wow, you guys want to know what I see when I read some of the above? "Ejs ndjkkkfi kkdinaa'k kindmi ppeiuam jfmid's kakmcm ncbwo dkrnal, kdjniincnma! Jamfinawqq dkdkmfannvb rreojc al;al59 lalkakdu nnaawwpnc." IOW, wow! I don't have a clue!

 

[RicinYakima]

And Ric - I left out the part that I only fire up my Windows 10 machine about once a year. It is amazing how many updates come out over that period of time. If you are a daily Windows user, I am sure it would be no problem whatsoever to keep up.

Yep, all I've used since the MS gave all state employees free programs and updates from 1991 through Windows Vista. Only use MAC on the iPhone. Then, I am a writer, don't play games, don't stream movies or utube or anything else, and over 85% of my storage space is empty.

 

[KeithB]

Everybody knows something, nobody knows everything.
Now you know how I feel when I read about tractors and agristuff.