Loading for HP Conversions.

[Mitty38]

Another question from the head peanut in the gallery. LOL
This is related to figuring out a load in pistols for a hollow point conversion.
Now my general way of approaching this in pistol is just don't think. Bunt.
Start out with the lowest amount of Red Dot or Universal could find listed for any weight or type of bullet in that caliber, then work up till I find the window.

I Was contemplating on things. Ye I know I am thinking. Scary, right?

Now if I converted a regular lead bullet to HP. Then seat it so the base is the same distance from the head on the brass, as it would be if never converted.Leaving the same amount of air space.
Would it still require a drastic powder reduction or increase, just because of weight alone,? Would the increase or decrease if any be covered by the Drop it 10% then work up rule?
Does this make drastic difference with some powders ? Are some differences negligible for some powders?.
Is the weight or the case volume the primary factor?
All thoughts welcome.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

You’re getting wrapped around the axle about things you don’t need to get wrapped around the axle about.

A hollow point cavity reduces the weight of the bullet but when you start talking about seating depth and air space under the bullet base, etc., I have to say – “Whoa”.

You may want to alter the powder charge due to the decreased bullet weight but C.O.L. probably isn’t the big issue here.

 

[RBHarter]

Coal stays as standard length for fit and feed .
MV will probably increase slightly because of the weight reduction but it might go the other way depending on how much weight reduction and the particular powder .

 

[RBHarter]

Alloy will probably have an equal effect on weigh off set up as the hollow points down if you go from say WW to 16-1 .

 

[Mitty38]

I was checking out different load sources not a lot for lead HP.
But I am kind in the line of thinking from what I am looking at. HP can lighten the bullet enough to cause a drop or raise in the powder needed but from what I can see except with H110, W296 or stuff around that burn rate. It stay well within 10% variation.
So If I stay away from the "magnum".powders. Should I not be fine just to drop.the load 10% and work back up?

 

[RBHarter]

Really I'd weigh an example against the solid and use the known load from there .

 

[Michael]

No sense over thinking things. If you are simply loading a HP version of a solid point that you have previous shot, just go with what you have been using, a few grains less in bullet weight won't mean diddly squat unless seriously pushing the low end of the load envelope where you have to sling the barrel down from over your head when you pull the trigger in order to get the bullet to clear the muzzle. I am talking SWC or flat nose where there would not be any change in bullet length and hence c.o.l., If the solid was a round nose and the HP version is bit shorter, just use the same seating depth, i.e, if the RN is seated 0.25" deep then seat the HP the same 0.25", this would give the same length measured off the ogive and hence have the same distance to the lands, and again just use the same load you have been using.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

You’re getting wrapped around the axle about things you don’t need to get wrapped around the axle about.

A hollow point cavity reduces the weight of the bullet but when you start talking about seating depth and air space under the bullet base, etc., I have to say – “Whoa”.

You may want to alter the powder charge due to the decreased bullet weight but C.O.L. probably isn’t the big issue here.

Sage advice here Emmitt.

Dont redesign the wheel here.

As Michael said above. Use the proven load you have for same bullet. (san's hp) If anything ya MIGHT get couple tenths more powder for same pressure IF OAL is unchanged. WEIGHT alone is but one integer. Bearing surface, seating depth are the other two & as long as they are constant you wont see appreciable changes.

Are these HP I sent? I think I sent some from a NOE mold.

CW

 

[Bret4207]

I think you are over thinking it. Unless there is a significant difference in weight, just go with what worked in the solid version.

 

[Mitty38]

Sage advice here Emmitt.

Dont redesign the wheel here.

As Michael said above. Use the proven load you have for same bullet. (san's hp) If anything ya MIGHT get couple tenths more powder for same pressure IF OAL is unchanged. WEIGHT alone is but one integer. Bearing surface, seating depth are the other two & as long as they are constant you wont see appreciable changes.

Are these HP I sent? I think I sent some from a NOE mold.

CW

Yes, getting ready to load those pretty soon.But was so thinking of having one HP'd for my 9mm.

 

[Brad]

If I have 2 bullets identical in all ways except one is an HP and the other a solid I would load them as being the same.
I have a few MP moulds I can cast as an HP or solid and I will use a single load.

 

[Winelover]

If I have 2 bullets identical in all ways except one is an HP and the other a solid I would load them as being the same.
I have a few MP moulds I can cast as an HP or solid and I will use a single load.

I do the same with handgun ammunition. However, when it come to rifle/carbine loadings, I will test plus and minus a half grain, from the heavier solid load. Sometimes, it makes a difference in accuracy.

 

[358156 hp]

What handgun, caliber, case, and bullet? There is no loading data specific to HP vs non-HP loads.

 

[Mitty38]

Just referring to general "non magnum" loads. With powders that are not touchy. In 45 ACP, 38 special and 9mm. Using powders like Red Dot, and Unique.


For the 1911
Just tried lyman #452374 230 grain. Powder coated 45acp LRn in both regular and a HP version. Using RedDot
Since RN I seated the HP to the same distance from the base of the bullet.
No perceptible difference.
But the ones I seated with the same COAL. Even though the HP was slightly shorter due to lack of nose. They lost a bit of accuracy. Flattened the primers just a touch more but not dangerous, as I am running towards the lower end of the load data.


So I guess I got my answer.
Seams that unless weight is drastically different. Volume, meaning the amount of space left in the case when the bullet is seated is a more important factor.
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Ian]

Unless you have a chronograph you'll probably never tell. Use the load you used for the solid with confidence unless you're loading super light to begin with.

Without taking you down a rabbit hole, a couple of examples: .308 Winchester, near full-power load, HP bullet weighs 10 grains less than solid, takes one grain (3%) more powder to push the solid as fast as the HP. .44 Magnum, 225 HP, 19.2 grains 2400 equals same velocity, and more importantly same POI and accuracy at 1000 yards, as 19.6 grains for the same bullet as a 239-grain solid. It ain't much difference, and only REALLY matters sometimes, in other words.

 

[Mitty38]

Chronograph, I had one of those. Shot it.

I figure if the bullet holes are pretty much in the same place. And my primers don't look like a flat lake with wind ripples, no impressions in the Head of the brass. Meh it's alright.
Like you fellas say it only maters when it does.

 

[fiver]

your really never gonna go wrong using a load for a heavier bullet with a lighter one.

there's a few places where i start sweating stuff like case capacity and powder types.
the 9mm and titegroup is one of them.
simple solution,,, use titegroup in the 45 colt... but not the 9mm.

 

[Mitty38]

Tight group, W296, and H110 make me nervous.

With the "Cheerios" powders I ain't scared a notin'.
Just wish I could find 8 lb of those fluffy little round donuts in some brand or other.

 

[Ian]

You have plenty of Red Dot, use that.

 

[Mitty38]

You have plenty of Red Dot, use that.

That is the plan with most of the 45acp.

However Longshot seams to work real well with the 200 grain wad cutter. Plus it gives me a really cool light show in low light.
For 9 mm I have navigated to 1 load.
Redding 125 grain round nose powder coated, sized to.357 with a compressed load of Red Dot. Kinda hard to mess that up. Just pour the powder in and shove the bullet home. Double charge it and you are cleaning powder off you press and bench.