Lyman 429360

[Monochrome]

Yeah I know, know that i learned what bullet I was purchasing from matts bullets for my 44 magnum, I learned some incredible horror stories on this bullet.

I understand why the best groups I can get with it are at 7 - 10 yards (2-3"). 20 yards with red dot can be wonderful (3"). But like all others to the bullet, I know understand the suddenly changing group sizes. I know part of it is my hands and muscle issues from work, but that cant explain how 3 shots grouping at 1x1 or 1x2" can suddenly become "hey i can actually HIT the 12"x18" sheet of construction paper.

At 20 yards generic cowboy ammo of 240 RNFP stays in about 4.5" circle, and this personal defense stuff from Fiochi does too, https://fiocchiusa.com/centerfire-pistol/defense-dynamics/44a500.html

What am I worried about, wasting powder and primers on a substandard bullet. A bullet that Lyman doesnt even seem to mention in loading data.

SO I am asking for a few pointers in what bullets to investigate via online purchase in order to find a good one.

 

[RicinYakima]

Two problems: front band is bore diameter, too small, and is aerodynamically unstable.

Lyman also made a similar bullet when the 32 H&R came out, but with a gas check. They made one run, and never made another, POS.

 

[Monochrome]

Two problems: front band is bore diameter, too small, and is aerodynamically unstable.

Lyman also made a similar bullet when the 32 H&R came out, but with a gas check. They made one run, and never made another, POS.

Ive been reading those things, also about how it started "beagle" on the road to modifying bullet molds for people.

I do get "good" enough short range accuracy, but as I am tired of wasting powder, is it worth going to the 245-255 swc types for improvement, or is there a fun 240 grain one that IS accurate

 

[RicinYakima]

Been shooting #429421 for over 45 years. Nothing is more accurate, nothing is more common. Match the alloy to your gun and just shoot it. If you want to experiment and play, go ahead I've done that already. FWIW

 

[Monochrome]

Been shooting #429421 for over 45 years. Nothing is more accurate, nothing is more common. Match the alloy to your gun and just shoot it. If you want to experiment and play, go ahead I've done that already. FWIW

What are you thoughts on gas checked bullets?

I just have 50 pounds of fresh plain lead from roto metal in the garage, no melter, no molds. Just getting things together.

 

[L Ross]

What are you thoughts on gas checked bullets?

I just have 50 pounds of fresh plain lead from roto metal in the garage, no melter, no molds. Just getting things together.

Welcome to the forum, welcome to the "hobby." Obviously I am not Ric, but he won't mind my sticking my nose into the conversation.
Gas checked bullets are great, but..... For 95% of handgun use, unnecessary in my opinion. I you are starting with a .44, Ric is absolutely correct, you cannot go wrong with a properly dimensioned version of the 429421.
You can try your luck on the new or used Lyman Lottery, or find a two cavity RCBS version, or order exactly what you want from a custom mould maker. If you are into this for the long run, that is what I would do.
I'd be tempted to get good measurements from my revolver, order a mould cut to drop the correct diameter from my preferred alloy from Tom, and most likely just tumble lube them in BLL, load and shoot. You will get other good advice from members here. I have never powder coated, but there is nothing simpler than just tumble lubing in Ben's Liquid Lube, letting them dry, load and shoot. No lubri-sizer, no 4¢ per each gas checks, no convection oven or powder paint. You will need a slightly harder than pure lead for your alloy though. Figure that out before you order your mould.
Edited to add, the 360 is a turd.

 

[Maven]

I purchased a #429360 for my Ruger SBH with a 10.5" bbl. years ago. While the mould cast beautifully, the accuracy of those CB's, sized to .431" to suit the SBH, was inconsistent, compared to either #429421 or the RCBS equivalent. Ideal/Lyman dimensions for -360 were perhaps for a different cartridge than the .44Spl. or .44Mag.?

 

[LEC Guy]

I've loaded the 429360 with 18 grains of WC820 it actually shot better that I figured it would. I'm just shooting steel plates at 25 & 50 yards. Gun was a Ruger SB with about a 7" Barrel. I was aware of it having a bad rap when I was loading. 18 Grains of WC820 is stout in my hand. The feedback I read online is the bullet works better if you push it faster. Probably what the load I used accomplished. I still have a box of the same load. I'll try it on paper and see how it does. The mold casts very easy.

Bruce

 

[RicinYakima]

What are you thoughts on gas checked bullets?

For handguns, they are a problem solver. Bullets aren't sized to the gun, too small, they reduce leading. Alloy too hard, they reduce leading. Usually, they are not needed until you get over 1250 f/s, but they don't hurt anything either.

 

[Monochrome]

Im just using a 629 5". Normally cast loads leave a ring of lead right at the start of the rifling. The unique loads i fired last night did not, they just left streaks of lead down the barrel and a few smudges on the forcing cone.

Did have a lube star, very small one inside the muzzle crown, but first one ever.

 

[RBHarter]

I'm going to 3rd or 5th or wherever the gas check not needed for pistols . I've run 9,357,40,and 45 Colts pushed about as hard as I care to push it in a Ruger . Never used any checks in any of them .

The 44 mag was developed with 1# tin in 16# of lead probably with gas checks. But Elmer Kieth was writing the second draft and proof copies of the book that we have built substantially on since 1935 .

 

[Walks]

Never tried it. Mainly because My Dad did and was not happy with it. Never known anyone who cast/shot it. Except CWLongshot tried it a few years ago. As I recall He wasn't impressed with it either.

 

[shuz]

I was never happier than when I traded my 4 cav. 429360 for another mould. I could nevet get that design to shoot in any of my 629's or Ruger 44's.

 

[fiver]

the 629's can have a small cylinder to throat relationship..... aka leading.

anyway if the 429421 or the lyman 429667 won't shoot in the gun you need a new gun not a new mold.

 

[CZ93X62]

Two problems: front band is bore diameter, too small, and is aerodynamically unstable.

Lyman also made a similar bullet when the 32 H&R came out, but with a gas check. They made one run, and never made another, POS.

You might mean Lyman #313631......I am the ambivalent owner of a two-banger Lyman of this description.

I had a similar view of the thing the first few years I had it--inaccurate, the gas check is superfluous, why the hell didn't Lyman come up with a classic Keith SWC instead of this excrement? I'm sure its labeling was a marketing ploy meant to follow in the wake of the mid-1980s' 32 Magnum enthusiasm--S&W had a J-frame Model 631 during this period--a Kit Gun with adjustable sights as well as their EXCELLENT Model 16-4.

Some years back I still had most of a 1# coffee can full of Lyman #313631s in 92/6/2 alloy. WTH will I do with these infernal things? (Answer--'Melt them into something useful, like Lyman #358156' was my first thought).

I do hate wasted time & effort, though. I concocted some high-performance loads using 2400 and AA-9 (IIRC), and these clocked past 1200 FPS into the 1350 FPS ZIP Code as I stair-stepped them with CCI #550s in Starline cases. They were louder than Hell's Drumline, but THEY WERE ACCURATE.

Interesting, that. A few years go by, and a Ruger SP-101 x 4.25" x 327 Federal finds its way into the safe. I ran some of the Lyman '631's at 1400-1500 FPS from the Ruger, and the casting behaved very well indeed--not quite to an 'RCBS-23-98-SWC' standard, but pretty good nonetheless. Don't discharge these in fault zones, though--the report might trigger earthquakes.

Maybe the Lyman #429360 needs to be run harder to Do The Right Things. Dunno, and Beagle might have been onto something when he remarked in "Castpics" that 429360 might be a flawed design. 426421 and 429244 do the bulk of my work in 44 Magnum, with an Accurate 250 grain round flatnose/gas check along for the WinRoku Model 92.

 

[beagle]

I am of the thought that the straight nose may be the culprit. I opened the rear band to .433. I opened the driving band to .432” and the width of the band on the 429421 and I even HP’d it thinking moving the center of gravity back farther would aid stability.
Pretty easy to modify band width/depth with a SS countersunk screw in a drill press if you’re careful. Eats a meehanite mould like butter. If you get a little out of tolerance, the sizer takes care of it.
After all this, problems still persisted. Higher velocities did help some. I was using 17-19 grains of WC820. All right at 50 yards but at 100 yards on berm plinking, was still erratic.
At this point, think I dumped it on Shuz and forgot it.
Only thing I wished I’d tried was a .44 PB gas check. Didn’t have one at the time.
Looking at the noses on the 421 versus the 360, the 360 has a straight taper and the 421 is slightly bulges out with a curved radius.
Wish i was an aeronautical engineer. This might explain the instability.
Here we have two bullets. Both are basically .429ish cylinders with a different profile nose design.
IMO, that has to be the problem./beagle

 

[RicinYakima]

Talked about this with my brother’s shooting friends at JPL, you are correct in the issue is the nose. Inherently inaccurate below the speed of sound or transonic. FWIW

 

[Monochrome]

Carefully looking at some of my unused bullets, of 360 mold..

Some of them have a wierd deformation to them. the bottom band below the lube groove, despite going through a sizing die is TAPERED, with the bottom surface of the bullet being the wide end of the taper. Some of mine appear that the grease groove is actually of a diameter smaller then the driving bend, giving a wasp waist profile.

 

[beagle]

Yes, they have that too but it shouldn’t affect the aerodynamics. I hogged that out to .432” on the one I messed with. Left it same thickness.
I’d have loved to throw a radius on the nose but never figured how with the limited tooling I had./beagle

 

[RicinYakima]

They said the line between the flat nose and the top of the top drive band. Turbulence builder . Most others, like Keith’s, have a slight curving line that move turbulence outside of the top band. Kind of like nacelles on a radial airplane engine.