Muzzle loader problems today

[Tomme boy]

I went out today to test a new to me ML. It is a LHR Redemption in 50cal. I have the Accurate 50-415-I bullet mold and casted up about 100 of these from 40:1 lead tin alloy. I then lubed then and sized them to 0.501" The lube is bees wax and olive oil.

The bullets are a nice slide down. Not loose but not tight at all. I have seen the long range ML guys sizing the bullets this way. I also use a 0.520" 1/8" thick lubed felt wad between the powder and conical. I have Swiss 2f powder. I weighed out 80grs in vials. And using Win 209 primers.

Anyway, i was able to get 3 shots before I had to stop. The 4" past the breech plug was so fouled up I could not get it cleaned at the range. What I do is load the gun for the first shot. Then after that I put a patch over the seating jag wetted with TC bore cleaner. The white liquid stuff. I then seat the bullet and swab at the same time. I have always done this with my guns and have never had any problems. My other 50cal I can shoot 30 rounds before I actually clean it like normal.

Things that are different than before with other guns. One the new gun. Two, using Swiss powder. Never used it before. Three, the lube, I have always used TC Bore Butter and have never had a problem. Four, sizing the bullets smaller. I have always ran them what ever size came out of the mold.

But the main issue is the fouling. I have NEVER experienced this like this before. Anyone have a clue as to what I might be looking for to stop this? I soaked a patch and ran it down the barrel and got it stuck. So I left it till I got home. Before that I used a smaller patch and was able to run it up and down several times but could not break the fouling loose at the chamber end. But once home the fouling was soft and wiped right out.

I am think about try the pyrodex I have but don't really want to. Tell you what, this 415gr bullet packs a punch on the shoulder. Especially since all I have been shooting for the past two years has been a 223

 

[Rick H]

Generally Swiss burns cleaner than GOEX or Wano/Sheutzen. It is also hotter. I think the reason it is cleaner is it takes less powder to give the same velocities...you burn less so you have less residue in the bore. I think weighing charges might be a mistake as well. Most measure black powder by volume and you might find that 80 grains weighed is much more powder than by volume.
I guess this is a long winded way of saying you might try cutting the load by 10-20% and see if it cleans up. Your velocity may well be better than you think.
Oh, I use 3fg black powder for everything including my .54's. Again, less powder for similar velocities as 2fg and it burns cleaner.

 

[Ian]

Things that are different than before with other guns. One the new gun. Two, using Swiss powder. Never used it before. Three, the lube, I have always used TC Bore Butter and have never had a problem. Four, sizing the bullets smaller. I have always ran them what ever size came out of the mold.

I had the same problem in my .62 unless running sloppy-wet patched round balls. Switching to 3F solved the hard crusties and took a lot less lube. Try 60 grains 3F and maybe Emmert's lube bw/Crisco/canola hand applied to the bullets and cleaned off in the sizer.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I had one such bbl that was or ery like that. I used a brass scraper designed for scraping bottom of bbl between shots and it seemed to help.

But readi g. Using lil diff load makes sence as powder causes residue so if its not burning efficiently changing conditions might change results. Also what anout those primers? Do you have a hotter one to try? I have never had issue but read many times BP primers are hotter or offer more volume of "fire" then shotshell 209.

CW

 

[Winelover]

All I use is Pyrodex "P" in my two rifles (50 & 54 cal) and ROA. Never had a loading issue due to fouling.

 

[300BLK]

I shot BPCRS for about 10 years, and shot 1-2 cases of BP per year. Goex Ctg was the powder of choice until they moved to Louisiana. I tried the first Swiss imported into the country. It was in Goex cans with paper labels, and I still have some of it, It burned hot and left dry fouling as compared to Goex, so trying to shoot strings of shots with a blowtube wasn't working. I tried KIK from Slovenia, Elephant from Brazil, and then Goex ffg from Louisiana.

The guys I know who shot Swiss all wiped their bores between shots. These were breechloaders, so more easily accomplished than with a frontstuffer.

As for 209 primers for inlines, the "blackpowder 209s" are WEAKER than regular 209s so that the projectile and powder charge are not moved by primer blast. Blackhorn 209 is different in that it needs a hotter primer and tight projectile fit for ignition.

I'm sure you paid dearly for that Swiss BP, but you're going to need to clean between shots.

 

[Missionary]

And always remember your rifle is an individual that has it's own appetite.

 

[Maven]

I went out today to test a new to me ML. It is a LHR Redemption in 50cal. I have the Accurate 50-415-I bullet mold and casted up about 100 of these from 40:1 lead tin alloy. I then lubed then and sized them to 0.501" The lube is bees wax and olive oil.

The bullets are a nice slide down. Not loose but not tight at all. I have seen the long range ML guys sizing the bullets this way. I also use a 0.520" 1/8" thick lubed felt wad between the powder and conical. I have Swiss 2f powder. I weighed out 80grs in vials. And using Win 209 primers.

Anyway, i was able to get 3 shots before I had to stop. The 4" past the breech plug was so fouled up I could not get it cleaned at the range. What I do is load the gun for the first shot. Then after that I put a patch over the seating jag wetted with TC bore cleaner. The white liquid stuff. I then seat the bullet and swab at the same time. I have always done this with my guns and have never had any problems. My other 50cal I can shoot 30 rounds before I actually clean it like normal.

Things that are different than before with other guns. One the new gun. Two, using Swiss powder. Never used it before. Three, the lube, I have always used TC Bore Butter and have never had a problem. Four, sizing the bullets smaller. I have always ran them what ever size came out of the mold.

But the main issue is the fouling. I have NEVER experienced this like this before. Anyone have a clue as to what I might be looking for to stop this? I soaked a patch and ran it down the barrel and got it stuck. So I left it till I got home. Before that I used a smaller patch and was able to run it up and down several times but could not break the fouling loose at the chamber end. But once home the fouling was soft and wiped right out.

I am think about try the pyrodex I have but don't really want to. Tell you what, this 415gr bullet packs a punch on the shoulder. Especially since all I have been shooting for the past two years has been a 223

TB, I think I'd change several things: First, go back to T/C Lube if it has worked for you in the past. Second, Unless you have a specific need for a certain powder charge, I'd try no more than 80gr. FFg, whether GOEX, Wano, or Schuetzen. Third, swabbing the bore is not unusual when using conicals. Ergo, do what you're doing with the T?C stuff OR try 1Ballistol : 6 water. Btw, I have no issue with T/C lube, but you can make a good one for very little $$ if you Google Emmert's or Stumpy's Moose Snot.* Hope this helps, TB!


*Although the recipe calls for castor oil, you can substitute extra virgin Olive oil or Peanut oil for it with no ill effects. (I do.)

 

[Rockydoc]

Castor oil smoke just smells better. It reminds me of the Type D Jaguars racing at Sebring in the '50s.

 

[Ian]

Stumpy used castor oil because it prevented rust better than most anything. It also holds up to hot fire better than olive oil.

Unless patching conicals, liquid lubes are out. Plain water or methanol-enriched winter windshield washer fluidmakes a great BP solvent for wiping between shots.

Swiss powder is made from a fuel-rich charcoal and formulated with a lean ratio of oxidizer. This combination makes dry, hard, KNO3 fouling, especially in the chamber area, in some weather conditions. 2F black powder of any flavor is probably gonna be filthy in a .50 unless using a wet lube and PRBs.

 

[Winelover]

Bore Butter is all, I ever used. Prefer, the pine scented one.

 

[Tomme boy]

I checked 10 charges of the swiss thrown by volume then weighed each. Then averaged the thrown weights I weighed and they were about 1.5grs lighter than the actual weighed charge of 80 grs. So the avg by volume was 78.5grs.

These yesterday were just trying to get the new scope sighted. I figured that I would just pick a max load for this bullet and sight it in close enough to do the actual load work. I am going to melt all the lube off these bullets and just wipe some of the bore butter onto them. I have six different bullet designs I will have to clean off the lube. I don't know when I will get this out again so it may be awhile.

 

[Mainiac]

I used to shoot a ton of smoke poles.some how i have got away from them.
Anyhoo,,i was never a fan of swiss powder,,in fact,in one particular rifle,a 32 tc cap gun,,the fouling gets so hard with swiss,spit patches didnt even help.

Big fan of shuetzen 3 f,,,or goex 2f,,,
Swiss makes more power,but it aint worth the hassle,imo.