Obsolete Cartridges

[Jeff H]

Well, since the 30/30 has been on its way to obscurity and obsolescence since probably some time around 1903, and the fact that my preferred system of measure has been proclaimed "dead" since I was in the sixth grade, I'm abandoning that tired, worthless old has-been (both of 'em) for a more up-to-date round that kicks some butt in the field.

According to this fella (among others), the 7.62x51R is the berries and should supersede my weakly old antique round by a fair margin.

https://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm

I know Hornady didn't (re)invent it, but I figure I'll give someone else a shot at grabbing the "latest/greatest" title.

It supposedly is also still workable in my obsolete Contender, from way, way back in 1967, so I will stick with that platform until someone reinvents it too.

Just pokin' fun of the whole thing here, not anyone or anything in particular - all of "IT" and all of US.

NOTE that I don't load like the linked author is known for. His guns, his loads - I use mine and mine.

 

[Jeff H]

That sounds like a nice skill to have. In the last couple of years I invested in Mil-Dot scopes on several sorta target rifles. I didn't exactly struggle to learn to use them but I had to get serious about studying the system. My first vernier caliper was an old RCBS plastic job and it was much easier to read in mm.

I can roughly think in metric if I have to. But the system lacks the charm of a system based on the length of some dead King's arm or **** or whatever. And avoirdupois, my goodness, just poetry. Think of how often we as reloaders and casters use the term "grain: and where it derived from. My roots go back to the Hanseatic League with a spelling of Mancgere which I think means merchant.

Wow, I walked away to go shoot and did not finish my post and now I see it is already obsolete, superseded by many others. I'll just go lay by my dish.

Dang, man! Another "DOUBLE-LIKE!"

 

[Ian]

The metric system is a much better, more common sense oriented system than ours. Kind of hard to believe we're not on it yet.

The only advantage the metric system has is base ten units which makes the mathmaticals easier.

Practical? That's a matter of opinion, especially in carpentry scale. "Hey Bob, cut me a 50x100mm board 1326.2cm long" just doesn't sound right. The metric system not having any units of measure on scale with the human body is my principle hang up with the system. On a hobby workshop or handloading scale the metric scale works fine though. Most of my precision measuring tools are in inches/grains/Fahrenheit/inches of water or Mercury so those are the systems I use most. The automotive world has gone global and the big stick is no longer owned by any American country so it has all gone metrique. I had to do calculations in Bar/liters last year and it was like translating to Swahili.

I'm with LRoss. "Charm" is a good way to put it. My size 11s are almost exactly a foot long, which is handy. I use cubits in a pinch and having marched thousands of miles at exactly 22.5" per step or eight steps per five yards (football field yard line graduations) I can measure distance pretty accurately by walking. Fahrenheit is a scale based on the freezing point of water and body temperature, which at the time were the only constants readily available. Having a system based on the freezing and boiling points of water makes more sense except the upper one varies based on altitude and pressure much more than body temperature does and there's no reference point close to room temperature.

Here's another one: can you derive a gram from scratch? How about a pound? Which pound? Countries have been arguing over and revising standards since the dark ages, and the funny thing is the smaller you go, the more approximate measuring gets. All measurment is comparative in some way and errors in both calibration and reading the instrument can drive you bananas.

Last night I was hand scraping a lathe cross slide flat by comparing it to a grade A granite surface plate. The error tolerance of grade A versus AA is very small, but the cost difference quite large. I got the slide flat and consistent to 40 points per square inch over a little more than eight inches on an instrument with an overall allowable error of 100 millionths of an inch on a 12x18" plate. Close 'nuff? You decide.

 

[david s]

A lot of the old measurements are based off navigation. Until recently there wasn't a real need for building standardization. Most things built that still exist were one offs. It wasn't till things were being produced in mass that standards became important. Knowing or wanting to know where you were was considered more important than being on a duplicate sailing ship.

 

[RBHarter]

I was beaten to it .
7.62×51R is 30-30
7.62×51 is 308........but it could be a 30 Rem and if we hang an R on it how can we be sure it isn't a 307 Win .

I don't even want to try understand why a 7.62 is .308 or .310 or .312 .......at least there's a reason for a 303 Britt to be a 31 cal .

Then we have the the 5.0 liter that's somewhere between 298 and 305 cid while a 318 is 5.2 and a 350-360 is 5.7 when the 318 is much closer to 5.2 . 6× 8 is 48 and in lay math 302 is pretty stinking close to 5 L which gives us 6×5=30 add a zero for 60 cid per liter which makes a 350 Chevy a 5.8/9 and a 360 FE or Mopar a 6.0 .......

The metric system was supposed to be in place by the time or very nearly so when I got out of school .
I read a lot of books in the 1984 , Farenheit 451 , etc theme in highschool . I don't remember which one it was , but I remember the main character lamenting that having learned that a pub pint was 1/8 of a 5 qt gallon and a quart was 1/4 of the same that a liter was too much as he could never finish one before needing to relieve himself . A half liter was far too little and relief always called half way through the second . A pint was perfect , always empty just in time for a relief and never needing a second to sate your thirst . Or something very close to that .

 

[Ian]

I want to know who figured out that 70mm was just the right length for a filter cigarette. Same with rolling papers, they're just right to have your smoke and toss the butt before it gets too short to hold. I guess all that is obsolete now for me now since I quit smoking ten years ago.

 

[462]

Back in the mid-to-late '70s CalTrans changed the signed distance to a city from miles to kilometers, but the distances of the other three cities on the sign were given in miles. Why? Even the Shadow didn't know why, but he certainly clouded some CalTrans bureaucrat's mind. After some years the distance was changed back to miles.

 

[fiver]

well 70mm is 2-3/4's inches.

it's the length of a shot shell, since they quit messing around with the 2-5/8's and 2-9/16's stuff.
IMO they quit messing with those sizes because matches and rolling papers wouldn't fit in a hull any smaller than 70mm, nor to be carried inside the pocket easily while bird hunting.

things get inter related in weird ways but somehow manage to change history.

[and yeah i made all that up, except for the interrelated part]

 

[richhodg66]

"Here's another one: can you derive a gram from scratch?"

A gram is the weight of a cubic centimeter of water.

 

[Brad]

That is why I used metric for lube recipes. 15 ml is essentially 15 g. Makes it simple to measure both solids and liquids.

A side benefit was baffling Ian and fiver with measurements.

 

[fiver]

i ignored them.
you know i measure everything with my MK-1 eyeball balance beam fingers.

 

[Ian]

"Here's another one: can you derive a gram from scratch?"

A gram is the weight of a cubic centimeter of water.

Almost, but not exactly, even at STP. That's why I mentioned the bit about precision. God only knows how to figure a 'Murican pound...it's real close to a pint of anything with a specific gravity close to water, but again, only close. I know somewhere there is one solid gold cube that weighs exactly one gram, but only real special people have access to it to calibrate the equipment that checks the equipment that makes scales. The rest of us live with a little error no matter the system we use.

I still ain't measuring boards or fence with a metric tape, that's just....wrong. Something else that's just wrong is a surveyor's tape where feet are subdivided into tenths to make the arithmetic easier. Bastard systems for $800, Alex?

 

[Brad]

Feet by 10th? No way.

 

[fiver]

what happened to a pints a pound the world around?

 

[Brad]

So 3840 ml weigh 128 ounces?

 

[david s]

We use quite a few temporary workers in concrete manufacturing. One fellow was from the American Samoan islands where they use the metric system. To say that feet and inches thru him a bit is an understatement, but we needed the rebar cut. What to do? Pretty simply actually, as long as I gave him the measurement in just inch's (12'2"= 146 inch's ect) he was fine, no need to worry about 1/4" or 1/16ths with rebar.

 

[RicinYakima]

"Here's another one: can you derive a gram from scratch?"

A gram is the weight of a cubic centimeter of water.

At STP.

 

[fiver]

ouhhhhhhh... no.
my math sucks but umm 128 isn't a pound.

i never did figure out if they meant a pound in weight or if a pint costs a pound down to the pub.
that seemed a bit expensize, especially when a 6 pack at the time was like 2 or 3 bucks [shrug]

 

[Brad]

No, but a pound of water is 8 pints, hence 8 pounds. A gallon is also 3840 ml.

 

[RicinYakima]

Volume	Weight (oz)	Weight (lb)
1 gallon	133.53 oz	8.345 lb
1 milliliter	0.0353 oz	0.002205 lb
1 liter	35.274 oz	2.205 lb
1 cubic inch	0.578 oz	0.0361 lb

All of this is very important to a fire department pump operator trying to pump water to a 15 story building and delivering at 100 p/ft.

"A pint is a pound the world around" only applies to an English pub.