Plain base bullets??
- Thread starter johnnyjr
- Start date
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
For cast handgun bullets, I use plain base bullets exclusively.
I despise gas checks on handgun bullets. Gas checks are unnecessary on handgun bullets.
Rifle is a bit more involved.
I despise gas checks on handgun bullets. Gas checks are unnecessary on handgun bullets.
Rifle is a bit more involved.
My grandson Trevor did some real good shooting with the Ruger # 1, 30-30 recently. He was shooting the 311008 , plain base, ( 124 grs. ) with 4.2 grs. of Red Dot.
Very accurate load.
This is how many rounds he fired :
Here is the target :
Plain base works in rifles, but not at blistering speeds.
Ben
Very accurate load.
This is how many rounds he fired :
Here is the target :
Plain base works in rifles, but not at blistering speeds.
Ben
Last edited:
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
PB, as I have learned the hard way is a different animal in rifles. The bullet wants to be softer so it bump up and plugs the bore. I've tried hard PB bullets in rifles with dismal results. I belong to a serious single shot type club and more than one has tried to shoot PB in centerfire HV caliber rifles with no success. Very surprised to see that MW65 has had success in milsurps. Can you please elaborate on your success stories, ie. caliber, twist rate, alloy, accuracy? Thanks.
My feeble suspicions were that faster twist barrels, 1:10 and the like, do not play well with soft (30:1) alloys. I think they tend to strip rather than engrave and leave mucho lead behind.
I have always subscribed to the 0.002 over groove diameter for cast bullets. But with PB and 30:1 it looks like groove diameter is the way to go. Tomorrow I'm firing some test loads with 0.001 under groove diameter to see if they bump up enough to shoot accurately and consistently. Will report back in my .32-40 thread.
I struggled with a .38-55 Browning High Wall and actually gave up. I've since had great success with my original .32-40 High Wall. Going to 30:1 was the secret. When I am finished with load development for the .32-40, I'm going to revisit the .38-55 with softer alloy. I know that the Brownings have Badger barrels and should shoot well. I just have not found the right combination just yet.
My feeble suspicions were that faster twist barrels, 1:10 and the like, do not play well with soft (30:1) alloys. I think they tend to strip rather than engrave and leave mucho lead behind.
I have always subscribed to the 0.002 over groove diameter for cast bullets. But with PB and 30:1 it looks like groove diameter is the way to go. Tomorrow I'm firing some test loads with 0.001 under groove diameter to see if they bump up enough to shoot accurately and consistently. Will report back in my .32-40 thread.
I struggled with a .38-55 Browning High Wall and actually gave up. I've since had great success with my original .32-40 High Wall. Going to 30:1 was the secret. When I am finished with load development for the .32-40, I'm going to revisit the .38-55 with softer alloy. I know that the Brownings have Badger barrels and should shoot well. I just have not found the right combination just yet.
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
What do you consider "work great" Jim? Can you shoot MOA at 100 yds with them? I'm talking rifle here, not pistol
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Snake
You should know I pretty much only shoot "Low Node" At or below the speed of sound! I Should have qualified my statement!
However I have shot Gas Checked bullets "sans the checks" with PC coating @ near 2000 fps accurately in my 243 Winchester at 100 yards.
in 1.5" groups for 5 shots just to prove a point.
I don't waste that much powder anymore or walk an extra 50 yards to my target! I do what I do because I enjoy it!
That is satisfactory enjoyment. but I also weigh my bullets to .1 grain and weigh my brass to .5 grain and weigh my powder to the exact charge I'm throwing! So I am crazy enough the way I am shooting Low Node at 50 Yards!
You should know I pretty much only shoot "Low Node" At or below the speed of sound! I Should have qualified my statement!
However I have shot Gas Checked bullets "sans the checks" with PC coating @ near 2000 fps accurately in my 243 Winchester at 100 yards.
in 1.5" groups for 5 shots just to prove a point.
I don't waste that much powder anymore or walk an extra 50 yards to my target! I do what I do because I enjoy it!
That is satisfactory enjoyment. but I also weigh my bullets to .1 grain and weigh my brass to .5 grain and weigh my powder to the exact charge I'm throwing! So I am crazy enough the way I am shooting Low Node at 50 Yards!
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
My Take on A PC coated Gas Check base bullet without the gas checks is that it is similar to a Jacketed Boat tail Spitzer!!
The Engagement of the bullet in the rifling is above the base! Pressure doesn't know or care about the shape of the projectile base below the contact point that much! This type of projectile will work!
The Engagement of the bullet in the rifling is above the base! Pressure doesn't know or care about the shape of the projectile base below the contact point that much! This type of projectile will work!
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I shoot quite a few plain base bullets. I shoot the RCBS 30-150-CM in the .30-30's over 14.0 gr. of IMR 4227. That bullet is cast out of straight WW, sized to .311" lubed with Ben's Red and over coated with 10 drops of BLL per 50 bullets. I shoot a Jeff Barnett 201 gr. plain base spire point breech seated in a Cody Ballard as cast at .323" in 1/20 alloy pan lubed with NASA lube. The accuracy at 200 yards is amazing to me at between 1 1/4" to 2" when tested from the bench with a 20X Lyman Super Target Spot.
Almost all of my handgun bullets are plain based ACWW some sized and lubed with Ben's Red, many shot as cast tumbled with BLL. All of my BPCR bullets are shot plain based of 1/25 alloy and pan lubed with NASA lube shot over black powder.
I have an NOE mould that recreates the original Ed Harris SKS bullet, two of the cavities are plain base and these get shot in various .30-06 Springfields and Remington 700 .308's.
I know there are more, .38-40, .44-40, .25-20 all in rifles for further examples.
fiver
Well-Known Member
i have 2 handgun caliber molds with gas check shanks on them.
i rarely use either one, and when i'm out of G/C's for the one it's either getting sold or opened to plain base.[probably sold since i already have a PB mold to replace it]
the other one gets used in a 44 magnum magnum pushed to about ludicrous speed most of the time.
in rifles i have maybe 2 or 3 plain base molds, but i'm on the verge of trying PC and no check in a couple [with a couple of different types of designs, just to see where i can go with them.
[no expectations either way]
i rarely use either one, and when i'm out of G/C's for the one it's either getting sold or opened to plain base.[probably sold since i already have a PB mold to replace it]
the other one gets used in a 44 magnum magnum pushed to about ludicrous speed most of the time.
in rifles i have maybe 2 or 3 plain base molds, but i'm on the verge of trying PC and no check in a couple [with a couple of different types of designs, just to see where i can go with them.
[no expectations either way]
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Since powder coat. I prefer PB & actually have reamed a number of molds to eliminate the GC shank.
IN RIFLE, AS LONG AS YOU POWDER COAT.
As mentioned dont push to highest pressures or velocities & its gust fine.
IN RIFLE, AS LONG AS YOU POWDER COAT.
As mentioned dont push to highest pressures or velocities & its gust fine.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I use them a lot for certain loads, especially high intensity loads in smaller bores like full power 357 magnum. My experience seems to indicate that gas checks become a better and better idea as twist rates get tighter and velocities climb.
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
I like PB bullets. It cuts down on the work load.
Lubed PB bullets (in modern bottle- necked cartridges) are typically for low power plinking, practice or small game loads. Just use the alloy you've got, preferably something reasonably soft, and use a nice and fat bullet (2-3 thous over bore-size usually works). Less work, reduced component consumption, minimal recoil- great fun!
Gas checks made for PB bullets can be bought at Sage's, or made with a special tool (Pat Marlin checkmaker, for instance). I make such checks from beverage cans in .30 and .35 caliber. They expand the useful range of loads with lubed bullets into the 16-1800 fps range.
Powder coated PB bullets (or GC- designs without the GC installed) can work really well. With a well- fitting bullet, I've found it feasible to reach 2000fps+ with good hunting accuracy, in a standard 1-10 twist 30-06, for example.
Lubed PB bullets (in modern bottle- necked cartridges) are typically for low power plinking, practice or small game loads. Just use the alloy you've got, preferably something reasonably soft, and use a nice and fat bullet (2-3 thous over bore-size usually works). Less work, reduced component consumption, minimal recoil- great fun!
Gas checks made for PB bullets can be bought at Sage's, or made with a special tool (Pat Marlin checkmaker, for instance). I make such checks from beverage cans in .30 and .35 caliber. They expand the useful range of loads with lubed bullets into the 16-1800 fps range.
Powder coated PB bullets (or GC- designs without the GC installed) can work really well. With a well- fitting bullet, I've found it feasible to reach 2000fps+ with good hunting accuracy, in a standard 1-10 twist 30-06, for example.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Gas cutting is about a lack of FIT. FIT IS KING! Fit is STILL KING with PC. Yes, PB bullets can work in most guns up to the point the pressure starts blowing the base apart- IF you get them to fit. Can't stress this enough. The whole thing with cast is FIT, not BHN, not magic paint, not Fairy Dust sprinkled in the lube. It's fit.
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
I have very rarely ever used gas checks on pistol bullets, but most of my rifle shooting uses them. I'd like to start using more plain based in rifles and have a few plain based molds to try. The limited attempts at using them w as n't great, but after reading a bit more, I think I'll try softer alloy with them.
I have shot a lot of plain bases in the .22 Hornet and that worked well, but the intent was very low poweed, short range small game loads and I never pursued it further.
I have shot a lot of plain bases in the .22 Hornet and that worked well, but the intent was very low poweed, short range small game loads and I never pursued it further.