Shooting groups over the long haul .

[RBHarter]

I saw post that referred to the 1 shot per 3 weeks group for a hunting rifle and it reminded me of a nit picking make a target rifle out of a used hard hunter grade beater rifle summer .
We all look for THE load , that is why we subject ourselves to this isn't it ?
One spring and summer about 10 yr ago in the infancy of my casting days I worked a jacketed deer slayer in a new case lot . I know some of you guys have read about the 06' Savage and it's 8.5 twist special order thing . I knew by then what it liked so it was just a matter of keeping the Remington brass away from it and hitting 2650 MV w/o breaking 2710 and it's a hunter with the now discontinued bullet ........
Moving on .
I shot 3 different cast bullets , 3 powders , and 5 lots of cases .
The results were boringly normal for the rifle . Some where in the first quarter of the load data window the group would close to about an inch then blow out . It always ran significantly faster than data and beyond paper patched I've never had a bullet that was properly seated that would touch the lands .
The long game left me with a use for 250 pieces of RP brass and good loads solidly planted in 30-30 country .

The big thing was that at some point after a zillion tweeks and a rifle that just quit shooting for no reason (there was a great reason but that's another tome of it's own) I decided I should look at just what was really practical from the rifle . I had 30-35 targets of best groups from 5 shot strings . Some were duplicates for proof some were this vs that change ....
At any rate I put a dot on a clean sheet and put the eyeball center hole of the groups on that dot and marked 150 plus shots flyers and all. What emerged on the clean sheet was was a just shy of 2" circle all shot at 100yd . Cast , jacketed , Red Dot , Unique , 4895 , 4350 , FC , RP , WW , LC , 130gr , 150 ,155 , 200 gr . It was just amazing to actually see all of those mediocre to hang that group on the wall to brag about targets all on one sheet . I had a whole new appreciation for the rifle as well as my skills .

I wouldn't go so far as to recommend that everyone do it but it did bring a hohum knock about rifle into focus . It also showed me what the long game really looked like in that rifle and as a hunting base that was very important to me .

Always learn from the data even if it's only what doesn't work .

 

[Brad]

What doesn't work is what teaches us the most!

 

[popper]

Cone of fire.

 

[fiver]

I have a Remington 700 in 8 mauser.
I expected it to shoot MOA or at least MOAish.
the best I could get was the ish part and generally more like 1.5-6"
over the course of time it pretty much proved out that no matter what I shot or what number it was in the string the bullet was going to land within that 1.5" area.
I have never got the lucky bragging group, but I have never launched one out of that hole either.
I haven't tried any heavy slow type loads or even tried duplicating the rounds original specifications.
so there might still be a magical combination out there [or a new barrel [shrug] ........or not.

 

[Intheshop]

RB,the forces working on bedding and the "cut" of the stock,which is not only the style(sporter,benchrest,tactical,etc) but also the fit are a cpl areas of rifle technology that leaves right much on the table.

Not enough time in the day comes to mind.Meaning,get a cpl cups of coffee(headed that way,it's early haha)in me and could rattle off a dz different approaches to test or check, symbiotic'ly speaking.Specifically on sporters,the torque involved on anything much over a 223 is effecting the shot way more than folks understand.

Another area is the shooter himself,physically.We all are of slightly different builds.Popeye vs Brutus takes it to the extreme.Just the size and grip of ones hands comes into play.Free recoil in BR takes the person out of the equation in critical parts.

Very interesting topic.

 

[RBHarter]

This experience was long ago . The shooting sessions and loading sessions were stress coping mechanisms . The target over,over,over lay was just another layer of coping mechanism. In the end it made me more aware of the size and shape of the groups and less concerned about where they were .

Oh the joy of the rifle that could be a tome of it's own . It started with walking mounts and goes through lapping mounts , bending rings , popped power ring pins , screw torque , bedding , barrel damage , hum changes from sight changes , getting the right answers while asking the wrong questions , fat barrel with choked chamber and muzzle . (For clarity on that last bit I had the first and last 4" of barrel clean , a good lube star and leading on par with full mag .355 dia through a 357 @ .358 .)

 

[Intheshop]

B.C.= before coffee.Wife and I don't use it as much these days but there's also B.K.= before kids.

 

[Intheshop]

Oops,hit the the post button...BC.

Ever wonder about base to ogive measurement?Why folks can't get accurate repeatable dimensions.It's a "form" of cosine error.But if you look up the definition or go by metrology/machine shop dictum it usually applies to only part of the problem or equation.

I can explain it because of a background of fitting,as that's defined in a fabrication shop,wood and metal.....NOT,as any sort of student of math.And there's another rub....

The guys that understand the problem (acc measurement of a curved surface) look for work arounds.Guys "trying" to understand the problem look for formulas.

For years I worked with curved stairs.This is all before the days of cad systems,yada yada.Now,temper that with the uber curved world of building trad bows.Further exhausted by metal fab(coping tubing).So the background is fabrication.....and we'll say to the highest order.

Just interesting to see,and I mean this sincerely.....really smart guys struggle with base to ogive measure.They're looking for formulas to work with.And while I could probably write it.....there's faster or better ways to circumvent the problem.But it won't make any sense if you don't have a fabrication background.

 

[Chris]

What emerged on the clean sheet was was a just shy of 2" circle all shot at 100yd . Cast , jacketed , Red Dot , Unique , 4895 , 4350 , FC , RP , WW , LC , 130gr , 150 ,155 , 200 gr . It was just amazing to actually see all of those mediocre to hang that group on the wall to brag about targets all on one sheet . I had a whole new appreciation for the rifle as well as my skills .

I never did that but will try it some time. The more rounds fired the more information there is in a composite target... certainly diminishes the deleterious effect flyers have on 5-shot groups.

I often put a backer behind my target and collect a 25 shot composite of five 5-shot groups.

 

[RBHarter]

I have some appreciation . I made a compound curve sheet metal repair , once . Maybe that should ONCE . I took 5 parts and way more time than the cut and section repair would have .
Mechanic vs technician . Same kettle of fish .