Smelting Range Scrap question

[JWFilips]

Trying to get a general consensus here as what most folks do when it comes to smelting Range scrap:
Do you spend the time going through & cracking all the FMJ bullets or does everything go into the pot the way it is ?
In the past I have only been faced with small amounts at a time so it wasn't a big deal to go through the pile and cull to the side the unbroken jacketed bullets and give them a wack with a mallet on an anvil. But now I'm faced with a few hundred pounds of scrap with the majority of it as jacketed.
Jim

 

[Brad]

Ok, take a look at the FMJ bullets. Most are open at the bottom. Those are never an issue. Pretty much anything that has a copper colored jacket all around, even on the base, are one of two styles. Some are plated, some have a cooler disk swayed in place on the read to cover the lead. Both leak lead quite well once it is melted. I see lots of little copper disks in with my jackets when done.
Any cutting or smashing is, in my opinion, a waste of time and energy.
That coming from a guy who has smelted over a ton of range scrap and I have about 1000 pounds waiting to smelt.

 

[KHornet]

Agree with Brad on this. A cast iron kettle with a lid is the way to go.

 

[JWFilips]

Well Sir! That's good enough for me!
Yes I was talking about those that have little berm damage and are fully copper clad ( Wouldn't want them to go pop when I'm skimming off the floating Copper)

 

[Brad]

My scrap is all stored in my garage for about a year before I melt it. It is pretty darn dry by then. I add a heap to a cold Dutch oven and pour on the flames. Once it starts to melt I use a long brass rod to bring the empty jackets to the top and let more solid lead get to the bottom to melt. After a while I have only empty jackets on the top and I can start to skim. Once the jackets are gone I add a handful of sawdust and stir a bunch. I scrape the sides and bottom a bunch too. A good skim and then a second flexing. I then pour ingots leaving a 1/2 inch or so of lead in the bottom of the pot. Then using a long shovel I add more scrap. Once the scrap is deep enough that the molten lead left in the pot is buried I add with a scoop to get the pot full again. By full I mean heaping.
In a few hours I can do a bucket or two. Takes me 1.5 to 2 hours for a full bucket, depending on weather.
I have had very few "pops" when doing this. One was a live round that found it's way in, that was a bit scary. Long pants, boots, and glasses are a must.

I think most people way over think this. I collect my scrap for free so if I do lose a little what does it really matter? My expense is propane and time. My wife seems to think my time has little value and who am I to argue? Propane is cheap, I can do 6-800 pounds on a single tank.

 

[yodogsandman]

I'll never add range scrap to a molten pot again! While adding the last 4" of scrap in a bucket by just dumping it in, I had a seriously pissed off visit from the tinsel fairy last spring. Moisture collected in the bottom of the bucket, even after sitting for about 8 months. Bet I had to scrape up 20 or 30 pounds up from around my smelting set up. That was after picking the lead out of the skin on my arm. Could have been a lot worse but, I wore mostly all the right stuff....except for the short sleeved shirt. That and I immediately pushed the bucket into the pot when it happened, screening most of me. Sure glad that bucket was in front of me!

Be careful out there, that tinsel fairy's really mean!

 

[Brad]

She is most definitely a mean one. She shows no mercy. Like I said, I use a long handled shovel to add more.
I don't know why some insist on washing the scrap. Why make it wetter? The dirt is easily skimmed off.

 

[JWFilips]

Brad pretty much what I do although I do presort to look for live rounds. Also no moisture in mine : 2 years in a humidity controlled basement a 50 % RH ( & I only smelt when it is cold & dry outside So no chance of moisture buildup.
I do about 3 rounds of sawdust per pot and do what Ian thought me .... constantly ladle the lead through the carbon that floats on the pot ( Then scoop off the mess, Sawdust again scrape & ladle through the carbon 3x) Since I have been doing that way I always have clean ingots in my casting pot. Another tip he taught me was to make sure when I pour the ingots keep the ladle spout case to the lead forming in the mould (Not as much oxidation) I try for 2 mini-muffins per my ladle...consistance here also pays off.
I don't get no where's near the grey oxidation anymore on my ingots using his pour technique
Jim

 

[Brad]

Not sure how the live round made it in the bucket. I'm very cautious when picking up bullets, I do it all by hand. I have had others help on occaision, wonder if they weren't as cautious? My daughter is very good at gathering scrap too, too bad she is 4 hours away now.

I smelt when it is warm. Cold lead is bad in a pot and cold Ingot moulds like to spatter when hit with hot lead.

Prevention is the key. Don't get stupid or rush. Right is always faster than wrong.

 

[quicksylver]

You could get two set ups going ,one to melt the other to preheat/dry.

BTW. I take out all copper jacketed stuff,just me.

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
I hand pick ( I know I'm crazy) all the cast bullets out of each bucket ( My wife helps too Guess she is crazy as me!) This way when I do range scrap I smelt the cast bullets stuff first ( not as many pounds) Then slowly I tackle the jacketed stuff
On my range I know 99% of the cast bullet shooters buy commercial hard cast! These I know are prime mixing alloy! The softer Jacketed stuff is the "extender" alloy!
Had to come up with new tricks now that there're no lead WW in my area anymore
Jim

 

[Brad]

I did some quick math. A heaping 5 gallon bucket generally weighs 225# for me. If the average bullet weight is 150 gr that works out to 10,500 bullets per bucket. I have 5 such buckets now.
If anyone thinks I am going to sort 50,000 bullets into separate piles they don't know me very well.
Mine all get mixed together and I find the allow is pretty consistent. If I need more consistency then I make piles of ingots from separate pots and remedy them together. By using a similar number of ingots from each original pot I get a bunch of very consistant ally. Like 300 pounds.

 

[JWFilips]

Brad,
No doubt your way is better. I'm just stuck in a different mind set...If any of you watch the TV series "big bang" you would understand why folks that know me around here refer to me as "Sheldon" & what is worse: I'm starting to answer to that name!!!

 

[RBHarter]

I sort it all . Jackets, very hard ,sorta hard and 00B/ML/slugs/ very soft.
The end result is water dropped from jackets that match ACWW ,25% probably WW, 25% close to the soft end of lino and 10% very- dead soft.

 

[Brad]

Brad,
No doubt your way is better. I'm just stuck in a different mind set...If any of you watch the TV series "big bang" you would understand why folks that know me around here refer to me as "Sheldon" & what is worse: I'm starting to answer to that name!!!

Your poor family.

I am just inherently too lazy to sort. I will say my range scrap, roughly .25% Sn and 1.75% Sb, heat treats quite nicely to 22 BHn.

 

[quicksylver]

I suppose it all depends on what you want to do with your bullets.
Bang away Sunday fun with a hand gun.

Ring gongs, or like me try and create bug holes.

An alloy for everything.

I do not have a tester so I rely on known alloy. Or as close to known as I can get.

Heat treating is interesting ,but how much time does it take to stand all those bullets on end and preheat the oven compared to sorting jacked from the pile ?

To each his own and we all learn .

 

[Brad]

I am lazy at heat treat too? I lay the little guys on a mesh tray and slide it is the oven. Once done I roll them into the water. Rick will cringe but hey, it works? I did finally get a pan with holes so I can do it "properly" the way Rick shows.

I like range scrap. It is generally pretty cheap and of from a single range most likely pretty consistent. Water dropped or heat treated it can do much better in rifles than most people can imagine.

I am fortunate to have a handgun heavy range from which to gather lead. I wish more people shot 45s and fewer 9s. Not much cast, might be 20% tops? Few shotgun slugs, maybe 20 per year.

Anyone here have any real luck at the scrap yard with the jackets? I sure haven't.

 

[quicksylver]

Brad...
do you mean buying or selling ?

Both of my ranges are about 90% hand gun.
With about 50-50 jacketed, cast.

The sad part is the hand gun games have turned into steel shoots.

30 people on a Sunday afternoon can go through a lot of bullets.

Good if they are shooting at the berms but terrible if shooting at steel.

 

[Brad]

Selling the jackets. I have a few buckets of them, probably 100 ponds or so. Last trip the guy offered me 11 cents a pound. Not worth the effort.

I agree entirely on the steel shoots. I hate that little "tink" sound, it is a bullet that never made it to the berm. We are fortunate to have a bunch of guys who shoot clay pigeons, golf balls, and who knows what. They leave lots of lead behind.

 

[quicksylver]

Rad zat least they offered you simething.

Most of the yards around here would not touch any brass casings at all.

If you wanted to get rid of them we had to travel 100 plus miles to the city yards.