Special bug rifle.....

RBHarter

West Central AR
I've hashed this to death . The 25 ACP just isn't going to be a thing unless I spring for a lathe .....which the time in my current life doesn't exist right now . It was a perfect replacement for 22 RF .........

A 32 is kind of the next step . Gobs of choices of pistols and a few rifles . Only I don't have a grand to drop on a Henry and I want to stay with a straight case for utility . I have 2 single shot options for a sleeve or adapter.

The looming question remains do I shoot the works and rent the 327 reamer just in case I score a bunch or do I just do the 32ACP that will give me that 500 rounds in a kitchen match box? This is like "just buy the 357 you're going to use it eventually" , vs "you're only shooting 38 Special and shorts why spend the extra money" .

Will the short chambers mess with accuracy enough to worry about inside 50 yd for small game ?
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I really love the idea of the 327 chamber. Offers SO MUCH versatility!! You can shoot 32 Shorts/32acp all day! Yet, need HP for anything a 327 steps up to provide.
Much of my thinking picking up the 16" conversion tube for my shotgun.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
In the world of 32 S&W/32 S&W Long/32 H&R Magnum/ 327 Federal - I see the 32 H&R Mag as the righteous pinnacle and probably where we should have stopped. Sort of like the 357 Maximum, you can do it, but it begs the question why?

I understand all the statistics and data related to the 327 Federal and it looks good on paper but at that point I’m just going to step up to an entirely different class of cartridges.

So, if a rimmed 30ish caliber cartridge is where you are heading, I would pass on the 327 Federal, but you do you.

The semi-rimmed 32 ACP doesn’t give you the same variety of bullets, but it does give you the “500 rounds in a kitchen matchbox” you speak of. In terms of efficiency, the 32 ACP is easy on lead and powder. Plus, it gives you some versatility if you pair a single shot rifle with a semi-auto pistol. Of course, the same could be done with a 32 S&W Long with a rifle/revolver combination.

If quiet (or at least not super loud) is a goal, any of the sub-sonic loadings of 32 ACP OR one of the rimmed 32 S&W based cases will get you there.

The ability to use a full wadcutter or semi wadcutter in the straight walled revolver cartridges such as the 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long or 32 H&R Mag, may be an advantage if this is going to be a small game / varmint rifle.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
This is not an argument against anything said so far or to come, but how my personal philosophy evolved, based on my personal situation and expectations for my own future.

ONE: You are going to expend a primer regardless of the bore size, bullet, weight, powder-charge, etc. Large or small, pistol or rifle - ONE primer will be used regardless. The Primer seems to be the one commodity affecting all of our shooting habits at the moment, even though we here are not hurting for bullets, and most of our loads are easy on powder and brass. You are going to expend ONE primer, whether it's a 25 ACP or a 458 Lott.

SMALL primers seem to be the only ones really being supported at the moment. Good for the 25 or 32, or many larger cartridges. Large primers are something I'm using in ONE revolver and ONE rifle and I won't be buying any new guns which require them for the foreseeable future. Yeah, I'd like to have a 360 BH, but not going to commit right now.

Adding a cartridge which is not on my roster at the moment spreads precious resources even thinner.

I love the 32s and would love to mess with them as small game rifles and revolvers, maybe even a neat little auto. The 32s offer a lot of potential and a LOT of flexibility, but I'd stop short of personal protection and hunting larger than "small" game. A 32 would cover the vast majority of my real-life/everyday needs fairly well.

BUT, the 35 caliber won out for me. I can mimic 32 power with light 38 and 357 loads, or take advantage of a LOT more power, if needed, without really stretching limits. I COULD chamber a rifle for 360 BH, 35 Remington, 358W or 35 Whelen IF I really needed more. I HAVE a 357 Max barrel I've never shot, but... same dies, same moulds, some of the same powders as the 38/357 Mag, so it's a no-brainer to have that extra power on tap IF I were to want or need it, without adding extra equipment/clutter.

I actually HAVE a small handful of LARGE-PRIMER 357 brass, if it were to come that. My revolvers will reliably fire small pistol AND small RIFLE primers, even in DA. The 35s take no less effort to cast for, the smallest 35s are the weight of the largest 32s and there is a much larger selection of moulds. Yeah, I only USE two or three 35 cal moulds, but I went through a lot of them to find the few I like best.

Brass for the 38/357 is much easier to find (for me) than any of the 32s. I've purchased brand new, quality 357 Mag brass, in quantity, THREE times during the current "drought" and at a price that was easy to swallow. If I ever had to scrounge brass, I am certain it would be easier to find than any of the 32s. I see loaded ammo on shelves for the 38 and 357 Mag from time to time, but NEVER see 25 or 32 ammo anywhere. JUST starting to see 380 ammo again, but I don't use it.

The 357 Mag actually covers my needs as well as a 32 would (as expressed above), but is easier to source brass and data for, ammo if I HAD to, and has the added advantage of a larger selection of revolvers at prices I can afford. I cannot argue with the accuracy of my 357s, from the lightest loads to the heaviest, in carbine OR revolver.

The 357 is not as cool or "cute" as the 32 (or 25 ACP), which actually does matter to me, but the 357 made more sense. It's still a compromise, but the compromise seems more on the pragmatic level for me - foregoing something I'd really, really LIKE in deference to something I happen to NEED a bit more.

Not for everyone, and if someone can manage the smaller bores in their battery and at the casting/loading benches, within their limits of fiscal and time resources, by all means - GO FOR IT! It really is COOL and really is FUN and they have a LOT of practical use. There are a number of 32 revolvers I'd love to have and a carbine would be the berries - same revolvers and long-arms I like and use for the 357s, actually.

The 32s are awesome. A 25 ACP rifle would be REALLY awesome. I think it would be a lot of fun and I think it would be very useful as well.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
The "game" is when or in my case if I run out all of the 22/17 RF that I can put 100 or so in a large pill bottle to have a like & kind CF . I have a 30-30 , 222 , 6.8 bolt and/or singles that I have loads for that are on par with 22 mags but it takes a 3×5 card index box to carry 50 rounds . Dad's 67A Winchester isn't going to stop shooting anytime soon I don't think .

I'm out of wishbook/bucket list wants . With Dad's stuff and happen upons I have 500 yd critter getters from 15-350# hoof weights , gopher poofers , something for every deer on the planet and while probably not ideal for all the bears in North America suited to the job . 410,20,16,12 in 2.5,2.75,3" and a 2-9/16" 10 ga project I will probably just secure all the parts on and call wall art . I mean if a 3"12ga won't fix the problem or buy groceries you have bigger problems.

About all that's left is African safari and something cute to whack coon and possum off the porch . If the zombies show up tomorrow morning I don't think I can out run them , and if I run out of ammo well .............an awful lot of Ft Smith or Texarkana will be piled up ....... I ain't bugging no place .

I have an NEF with a seriously ugly 20 ga barrel in 30-30 and 2 Savage take off barrels in 06' that will make 18" even if the whole 3"s of chamber and leade have to come off the chamber end .
I figure I ought to be able to haggle 2 lop and turns pretty cheap then I don't have choose I can have a 327 and a 32 ACP.

Yeah the SWC is a bonus .

Unfortunately the 9/38s/357 fall into the same hole the assorted 45s do . Not enough rounds in a small enough box ,45s are 8# /100 , about 6# for the 9/38 , and what 1.25-1.5# for 32 ACP. The 38/357 Marlin shot great with 9×25 rimmed and the Sec 6 liked it too . 14+1 was great too.

100 gr at 1000fps out of an 18" barrel should handle even snowshoes inside 50yd .
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
...Unfortunately the 9/38s/357 fall into the same hole the assorted 45s do . Not enough rounds in a small enough box...
Yep, you got me there on the 357. The ammo IS bulky and I do like the 100 rds/pill-bottle idea.

I probably should exit this thread before I get too many more ideas and start wanting one of these "bug guns" too now.

I think that regardless of whether the 32 cal. suggestions tempt you, you could still apply MOST of the existing information on the 32 ACP in a small single-shot rifle. Short of a suitable donor, I'm still intrigued by the latest Rossi single-shot shotgun for such a project.

They are small, inexpensive and even a little ugly, so they should check a few boxes for such a project.

If you DO this, I hope you have time to post about your progress.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Outpost75’s excellent former dissertations on the 32 caliber handgun cartridges shed a great deal of light on the topic.

If the bulk of say 100 rounds is a concern, the smaller cartridges win. If the physical size of the cartridge is important, then the 32 ACP wins that contest against the 32 S&W Long, but only by a slight margin. Both the 32 ACP and 32 S&W Long will beat the 38 Special in the number of cartridges stored in a given space. However, that criteria may not be the most critical factor to you.

I can see the logic in what Jeff H wrote and I can offer no counter, but I also see the attraction of a bunny gun chambered in a centerfire cartridge smaller than the 38 Special. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, I don’t think I would add another cartridge to my arsenal just to get a 32-caliber bunny gun but, as a fun project, it pretty much sums up what many of us pursue. It is a hobby after all. In the realm of reloading, the 32 ACP is about the smallest centerfire cartridge I want to fool with. I also agree with Outpost75’s previous comments about the 32 caliber cartridges being far more effective than a .22 rimfire when dealing with small game.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Why go to all the trouble of making a micro caliber when you can buy higher powered air rifles and still get to cast for them if that's what you want.
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Below is "Poacher's Pet" a Remington Model 580 series 22LR converted to 32 H&R. Ed Harris turned me on to this concept and I like it much better than the break open shotgun conversions.

It is never in the safe but always available and also goes camping and day wood trips as the car rifle. A soft 90 grain wad cutter with 2.5 grains of Bullseye is almost silent, quieter than my air rifle. A #311316 at 112 grains and 9.0 grains of A2400 is a very good vermin and varmint load.

Poacher's Pet.jpg
 

StrawHat

Well-Known Member
Below is "Poacher's Pet" a Remington Model 580 series 22LR converted to 32 H&R. Ed Harris turned me on to this concept and I like it much better than the break open shotgun conversions.

It is never in the safe but always available and also goes camping and day wood trips as the car rifle. A soft 90 grain wad cutter with 2.5 grains of Bullseye is almost silent, quieter than my air rifle. A #311316 at 112 grains and 9.0 grains of A2400 is a very good vermin and varmint load.
I have been wanting to build one of those for years! Never found a donor rifle. Maybe one day.

Kevin
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
You go that right Ric...
When I decided to turn a Winchester 86 (jap) into a 50 Alaskan all sorts of interesting authors jumped on me.
So what if we lived in ILL-Nois where center fire rifles were verbotum to hunt more than yotes....
It is the journey. It is the learning. It is that first round.
That 26" hex barreled anchor in 45-70 turned into a less heavy caliber 50 lever rifle that will hunt anything I ever take a notion to go after.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
Of course a small caliber muzzle loader, say a .32 or .36, makes a pretty good lettuce protector.

Except, at least in MY case, I never have time to clean it properly after it has served its purpose. MUCH quicker to load/unload as required as well.

I LOVE shooting muzzle-loaders. Nothing against them at all, but daily requirements of my time preclude the proper care these days.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
well.
i got nuthin for or against any of the cartridges.

my method would be to zero in on the ballistics and distance i'd use the rifle for.
75yds versus 50yds. is a long ways different at 800 or 1000 fps.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I love my 35's. But they always seems "too big" for lil critters.
My pop was a huge 38 spec guy. He had a dozen of them but rarely two at one time. He would shoot rabbits and squirrels and what ever was in the garbage can or garden with them. He switched from380, the day he shot a rabbit three times and it hopped away. (Reflecting on the 35 Whelen thread) probably the 95g RM FMJ loads he was shooting. (Nothing else really available in 1968/69)
This also started him Casting for the 38 with wadcutters. (I have his single cav Lyman mold.)

Anyhow, it just always seemed too big. Early on I discovered the 25/20 & 32/20. I really liked them and they didnt seen too bug for bunnies or squirrels. I know just my own feelings and loaded for the purpose its not the case. It still feels too big.

The 32 (and smaller) seem right.

My own choice as a shtf would be the 22 magnum. But thats a different thread.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I love my 35's. But they always seems "too big" for lil critters...

Well, they ARE too big.

They are also too SMALL!

Depending upon circumstances.

NOT "perfect" - more of an optimum combination of compromises, depending on extant conditions - ones own circumstances.

An IDEAL gun for every purpose was once an ideal which drove me nuts. I really had too much stuff to keep track of, let alone enjoy. We've all heard the corny retort that "you can only shoot one at a time anyway." We all don't HAVE to abide by that ALL the time. But I kind do.

My own ravings about the 35s should not be construed to mean that I delude myself that they are perfect for every situation. They certainly are not. They're less terrible a choice than others, sometimes, depending on the situation.

One note I took away from @Outpost75 's The Infamous Bunny Gun in 9x19 post was that THINGS CHANGE. The perfect revolver/single-shot rifle combo changed for a person, based on several factors, so IT DEPENDS. It ALWAYS depends. The 9x19 is still a compromise - though a really GOOD one. So maybe I need to be careful about mixing up THAT concept with what someone else wants as an ideal gun for a specific purpose, other needs be damned for the moment.

Everything I'd read or discussed about "Bunny Guns" or "Rook Rifles" for years prior to that was validating - paralleling some things I thought I had figured out but filled in a lot of gaps than validated for me. Then, it all got turned on its head in a short article, which ALSO made perfect sense. Just like the 32 Bunny Guns and the 45 ACP Bunny Gun...

I do hope my carryin' on about the 35s does not come off as an argument for them being THE ideal, let alone an argument of much merit. I do tend to stray and this thread started out as a "BUG-gun," and the 35s are probably WAY too much for bugs. Except that a shot-load of instant grits can be pretty effective on bugs from a 35...

STILL, as I've personally striven to create the ONE carbine/revolver to hang onto to the very end, I remain committed to enjoying all the other stuff vicariously through other peoples' wallets. TIME is really more a factor for me. It's just so much easier to mind all the facets of shooting (scrounging, casting, hand-loading, actually shooting, etc.) with ONE cartridge, one set of dies...

Otherwise, I'd have me a 32-caliber single-shot revolver/carbine combo too. More like a TWO-revovler, or three or four-revolver/carbine combo.

My choice, in that case would probably be the 32 Mag. Start throwing in too many "what-ifs" and it'll end up being a 35 again. Too small for this, too big for that, people-protection, longer ranges, more "oompf in case you need it, etc. One can get carried away in a hurry and muck up something IDEAL for a specific application with an abomination which is not REALLY ideal for anything.