Taurus Thunderbolt, .45 ACP!
- Thread starter Ian
- Start date
Ian
Notorious member
I just fixed that. http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/our-first-baby-is-here.2797/#post-52614
This being a bullet-casting forum I tend to keep the non-relative stuff out of it, but I've been encouraged to share anyway and I don't mind a bit, kind of walking on sunshine right now
This being a bullet-casting forum I tend to keep the non-relative stuff out of it, but I've been encouraged to share anyway and I don't mind a bit, kind of walking on sunshine right now
F
freebullet
Guest
Good times!
Ian
Notorious member
Well, the Taurus project is shelved again. I wasn't happy with the bolt/barrel interface so I cut the shoulder back one more thread, re-faced the barrel to the length Taurus should have made it to begin with (.006" shorter), put the chamber back where it belonged, and in so doing got the lockup FINALLY where I wanted it. then I discovered the reamer I bough makes very little throat, and if I hadn't gone a little too deep the first time it never would have worked. So I cleaned up my junk Manson throating reamer and wallowed out a decent leade, then lapped it. Good to go. Went out and shot half a box through it with the magazine attached and started having double-feeds (expected as much, the cartridge stop for the mag tube is made for much larger rimmed cartridges). Somewhere along about 22-25 rounds the action quit locking up, or actually it locked fine but the mechanism that keeps the bolt from opening when the hammer is cocked quit working, something in the bottom metal underneath the lifter and slider. I tore it down to the point of needing to drift out some pins to get the slider out and realized I hadn't the foggiest notion as to how any of that worked. Being that this wasn't any kind of failure associated with my modifications, and already having pretty much reached my frustration level correcting and re-correcting all the horrible mess of the bolt, raceways, and locking mechanism, I'm throwing in the towel on this POS for now, maybe forever. The work I did to remove the barrel, cut a new tenon, thread it, and match all the the chamfers and thread reliefs worked out perfectly and I got some firsthand experience with headspacing, cutting shoulders to time dovetails, and getting a feel for my lathe and how to do some really precision work on gun barrel steel.
I can't be too disappointed even if this rifle does end up a wall-hanger, I got to shoot a box of shells through it after working on it and it didn't blow up, plus the experience is priceless. Next time I think I'll work on a better rifle now that I understand why my local gunsmith has a huge sign on his entry door which reads "I DO NOT WORK ON GUNS WORTH LESS THAN $300".
I can't be too disappointed even if this rifle does end up a wall-hanger, I got to shoot a box of shells through it after working on it and it didn't blow up, plus the experience is priceless. Next time I think I'll work on a better rifle now that I understand why my local gunsmith has a huge sign on his entry door which reads "I DO NOT WORK ON GUNS WORTH LESS THAN $300".
F
freebullet
Guest
Well, no shame in shelving it for a bit. Have done the same. May not wanna do it now, but never quit, admit defeat, or surrender.
Ian
Notorious member
I keep coming back to it, it's just that I need to spend 10-15 hours with inadequate tooling making new raceway parts that are a correct fit (O.E. parts would be fine but they aren't available and some jackwagon buggared them before I got the rifle) and I'm not up for doing that PLUS dealing with an unknown failure in the bottom works, then having to put some serious brainpower and likely some molten steel into the bits that shuffle and shuck to make them work with the shorter, rimless cartridges reliably. Maybe one day when I'm bored, these things bug me in the long run. In the meantime I have a scout optic mount I need to finish for my Pig Gun and a front sight screw hole that needs drilling and bottom-tapping on the 336 that I threaded a few weeks ago.
The places that sell lathes and mills should give Lathes away because all a lathe does is make you realize how desperately you need a mill.
The places that sell lathes and mills should give Lathes away because all a lathe does is make you realize how desperately you need a mill.
fiver
Well-Known Member
that double feed thing could be stopped with a little bit of weld build up and some square filing on the lifter.
I had to move the stop back on my 92 to get the 429214 to feed properly at it's full length.
anyway the lifter should click up and click down.
I'd clear that part up first.
then the bolt lock up will make more sense.
I had to move the stop back on my 92 to get the 429214 to feed properly at it's full length.
anyway the lifter should click up and click down.
I'd clear that part up first.
then the bolt lock up will make more sense.
Ian
Notorious member
Something broke or slipped out of place in the bottom metal assembly, apparently under the slider or under the hammer. The hammer doesn't want to fall all the way to the bolt face, if I force it it's pushing something springy down in the bottom. Whatever it is that the hammer and slider interface with that snicks into place and locks up the forearm until the hammer falls either slipped out or broke and pieces are binding up the hammer. The bolt, raceways, and bolt locking piece all work great.
I figured I'd build up some metal on the tip of the teat that holds the cartridges in the magazine to keep the rims from jumping over it. It's doing exactly the same thing that Marlins do with the famous "Marlin Jam". The lifter flicks up and down ok but has always been very stiff. I may need to do the opposite of what you did and add metal to the back of the lifter to better control the shorter cartridges. So I have three problems to fix now: Re-make the raceway inserts, fix the slider teat thingy so cartridges meter correctly from the magazine, and fix the forearm locking mechanism. Maybe later...
I figured I'd build up some metal on the tip of the teat that holds the cartridges in the magazine to keep the rims from jumping over it. It's doing exactly the same thing that Marlins do with the famous "Marlin Jam". The lifter flicks up and down ok but has always been very stiff. I may need to do the opposite of what you did and add metal to the back of the lifter to better control the shorter cartridges. So I have three problems to fix now: Re-make the raceway inserts, fix the slider teat thingy so cartridges meter correctly from the magazine, and fix the forearm locking mechanism. Maybe later...
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
You got a real LOL out of me when I read:
"The places that sell lathes and mills should give Lathes away because all a lathe does is make you realize how desperately you need a mill."
Yep, been there, got two mills, but only one under power so far. I have used my friend's Jet and then it's replacement the
NOS Bridgeport for many years, so I have learned what a real mill is like and can do.
My little toy Benchmaster likes to pretend it is a baby Bridgeport, and in many ways it really is, but it can't be a great drill press
without a quill. I have purchased a sensitive drill chuck and that is going to be my substitute for a quill, for tiny holes like that
front sight, but you are still limited by the vertical space available for work and tooling when drilling. Very short drill bits are your friend, or
spot it and move to the drill press. Some workpieces have to be directly clamped to the table, mill vise takes up too much vertical
space.
Here is a picture. The attractions are price, relative easy of moving it around and space requirements. Mine has been excellent for gun parts, plenty
of size for most gun applications. One person online commented "They seem to come up on eBay about once a month or so".... not
sure if that is true. I bought mine from the newspaper (remember classified ads?) for $800 with a LOT of tooling, including an indexing
head. This isn't mine, but other than paint, mine looks the same, but has the motor switch box mounted on the right upper side. The
head can rotate to angle the spindle, too, never have used that feature. This one has a chuck of some kind, mine has collets to hold cutters. That
chuck takes up about 1.5" of very valuable vertical space, and makes everything more flexible, and invitation to chatter and poor
surface finish.
This is a really good starter mill, IMO. I finally think I have seen/used enough of home shop tools to have at least a semi valid opinion,
having moved mine and several friend's various machines gives a realistic grasp of the benefits of smaller machines for home use,
while keeping in mind the limitations of the smaller machines, too. If this one had 6" more vertical travel, or a quill, IMO it would be
perfect for gunsmith work in a small shop. Bridgeports are wonderful, no doubt, but hard to put in most basements and because they
are so desireable, they are pricey, and frequently just flat worn out, too.
I don't know but I would guess that something in the $1000 price range, plus or minus on condition and extras would be a fair price.
Bill
"The places that sell lathes and mills should give Lathes away because all a lathe does is make you realize how desperately you need a mill."
Yep, been there, got two mills, but only one under power so far. I have used my friend's Jet and then it's replacement the
NOS Bridgeport for many years, so I have learned what a real mill is like and can do.
My little toy Benchmaster likes to pretend it is a baby Bridgeport, and in many ways it really is, but it can't be a great drill press
without a quill. I have purchased a sensitive drill chuck and that is going to be my substitute for a quill, for tiny holes like that
front sight, but you are still limited by the vertical space available for work and tooling when drilling. Very short drill bits are your friend, or
spot it and move to the drill press. Some workpieces have to be directly clamped to the table, mill vise takes up too much vertical
space.
Here is a picture. The attractions are price, relative easy of moving it around and space requirements. Mine has been excellent for gun parts, plenty
of size for most gun applications. One person online commented "They seem to come up on eBay about once a month or so".... not
sure if that is true. I bought mine from the newspaper (remember classified ads?) for $800 with a LOT of tooling, including an indexing
head. This isn't mine, but other than paint, mine looks the same, but has the motor switch box mounted on the right upper side. The
head can rotate to angle the spindle, too, never have used that feature. This one has a chuck of some kind, mine has collets to hold cutters. That
chuck takes up about 1.5" of very valuable vertical space, and makes everything more flexible, and invitation to chatter and poor
surface finish.
This is a really good starter mill, IMO. I finally think I have seen/used enough of home shop tools to have at least a semi valid opinion,
having moved mine and several friend's various machines gives a realistic grasp of the benefits of smaller machines for home use,
while keeping in mind the limitations of the smaller machines, too. If this one had 6" more vertical travel, or a quill, IMO it would be
perfect for gunsmith work in a small shop. Bridgeports are wonderful, no doubt, but hard to put in most basements and because they
are so desireable, they are pricey, and frequently just flat worn out, too.
I don't know but I would guess that something in the $1000 price range, plus or minus on condition and extras would be a fair price.
Bill
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Table dimensions are 18 side, six deep. Travel left to right is a bit less maybe 16 or 17 inches, in and
out is six inch travel, vertical is the most limited. The end of the spindle collet to the table with knee all
the way down is 8 inches. You have to share that with vise, cutter and workpiece. Sometimes no
room for vise, need to hold down the workpiece directly on the table. No quill is inconvenient, and the
space for any kind of a chuck is hard to lose, so not good for drilling. But for milling on smaller pieces,
like pretty much anything on a gun, it is just fine. Any action or frame will easily fit.
For precision hole drilling, you would locate and center drill all your holes on the mill then
finish them in the drill press.
Bill
out is six inch travel, vertical is the most limited. The end of the spindle collet to the table with knee all
the way down is 8 inches. You have to share that with vise, cutter and workpiece. Sometimes no
room for vise, need to hold down the workpiece directly on the table. No quill is inconvenient, and the
space for any kind of a chuck is hard to lose, so not good for drilling. But for milling on smaller pieces,
like pretty much anything on a gun, it is just fine. Any action or frame will easily fit.
For precision hole drilling, you would locate and center drill all your holes on the mill then
finish them in the drill press.
Bill
F
freebullet
Guest
Thanks! Helps to put parameters on what I was seeing there.
I noticed even some of the larger(say2500$) units on grizzly seem to have a seemingly narrow table. I suppose the peice could be turned to account for it, but not having that space large enough seems like the secondary issues with them, compared to the depth as you explained well.
I noticed even some of the larger(say2500$) units on grizzly seem to have a seemingly narrow table. I suppose the peice could be turned to account for it, but not having that space large enough seems like the secondary issues with them, compared to the depth as you explained well.
Ian
Notorious member
Well, no shame in shelving it for a bit. Have done the same. May not wanna do it now, but never quit, admit defeat, or surrender.
Over two years later, it's time to look at this project again. Basically it was in the way leaning up against the corner in the shop next to my big toolbox, so it's fix it or can it.
First step was tear it all down again and drive the pins out of the bottom metal to see what went wrong with the transfer bar thingy that holds the hammer cocked until the action is locked closed. Lots of filth and crud in the bottom works, cleaned all the parts in solvent, blew dry, and started going over how it all fit again. Nothing seemed wrong so I out it back together and saw that the bottom of the chamber needed a little radius out on it to help the cartridges feed. After just breaking the bottom edge of the chamber, it started feeding and ejecting just fine, apparently all it needed was some cleaning and lubrication and that little tweak to the bottom chamber entrance.
The bolt still works at a slight angle to the bore and wobbles terribly and the bolt guide inserts are still loose in the bolt grooves where some idget filed them to a taper, but the thing will load, feed, and eject four dummies in a row over and over again with no issues. It's a good thing the cartridge stop on the lifter doesn't need extending because there is no room to do so: turns out the hinged locking bolt has to swing down right in front of the cartridge stop to lock up.
I won't be able to shoot it until next weekend but hopes are high that this hot mess will work well enough to at least be a fun range toy. Fingers crossed.
