The 380 Auto, 116 years of service

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
John Browning introduced the world to the 380 Auto (9mm x 17mm, 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, ……) and it is still with us today. In the interest of full disclosure, I must write that I have spent a lot of time with the 380 Auto cartridge, but I no longer utilize it. I’m not here to disparage the cartridge, but rather explore its history and perhaps glimpse into its future.

The cartridge utilizes the same .355” diameter as the 9mm Luger bullet but typically with a slightly lighter bullet of around 95-100 grains as opposed to the 115-125gr 9mm bullets. The 380 Auto operates at a much lower pressure than the 9mm Luger. The 380 Auto operates at a maximum of 21.5K psi as compared to the 9mm Luger at 35K psi. It is this slightly lighter projectile and lower operating pressure that gives the 380 Auto its major claim to fame – It can operate in simple blowback pistols. In fact, it is about the most powerful cartridge that can operate in small, blowback pistols. YES, there are some others that exceed its performance such as the 9 x 18 Makarov or you can put a massive brick of a slide on a Hi-Point and push the blowback system to higher pressures. But in a SMALL, simple blowback design, the 380 Auto is about the power ceiling before you must step up to a locked breach system.

It is this confluence of maximum power compatible with a simple blowback system that makes the 380 Auto shine.

Guns like the Colt 1908 pocket hammerless (a bit of a misnomer, it has an internal hammer) or the FN model 1910, put the 380 Auto on the world stage. Perhaps too much so when Gavrilo Princip used a FN model 1910 chambered in 380 Auto to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914. (The pistol used was chambered in 380 Auto, not 32 ACP, as is widely and falsely reported).

The introduction of the Walther PP and PPK pistols chambered in 380 Auto added to the cartridge’s popularity. The Beretta Model 1934 added yet more to the growing popularity of the cartridge. Later came excellent pistols such as the SIG P230 and a multitude of others.

The cartridge is unquestionably successful in terms of distribution, sales, and number of pistols chambered for it.

But the world has changed. There are now small, locked breach, double action pistols chambered in cartridges that were once only seen in larger DA pistols. So, while there are still small pistols chambered in 380 Auto, there are now equally small DA pistols chambered in more potent cartridges.

The recoil of a 380 Auto is not significantly less than that of a comparable 9mm pistol. The added mass of the slide and barrel of a locked breach pistol may even help change the perceived recoil of a 9mm pistol as compared to a simple blowback pistol. The magazine capacities are similar between the pistols due the nearly identical diameters of 380 Auto cartridges and 9mm Luger cartridges.

The 380 Auto is far too established to be in any danger of extinction. There are plenty of people that like the 380 Auto and there are some outstanding pistols chambered for that cartridge. The 380 Auto continues to fill a role but the role has changed.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
so this then begs the question.
the 380 operates at a higher pressure than the 45 acp, so were any 45's built as a blowback design [other than perhaps a hi-point]
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
There are all kinds of 45acp blowbacks. Thompson machine gun, M3, all kinds of off brand semi auto machine pistols. Almost all modern ar15 45acp are blow backs.
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
About a year ago I bought what I believe is the pinnacle of 380 handguns. The Ruger LCP Max is a locked breach 10+1 380 that carries in the pocket. I shunned the cartridge for years due to its lack of power and capacity.

That said, the ability to dump 11 rounds into an A zone in 3.5 to 4 seconds has changed my mind about the 380 and its now my everywhere gun. I will admit though, if the LCP Max came in a 15+1 32 ACP, I'd probably own it too.

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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
A heavy bolt in a M3 or Thompson isn't as big of a deal as a grossly heavy slide on a pistol. So while blowback subguns might have heavy bolts, in the overall scheme of things - not a big deal in a sub machine gun.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
It has been a while since I've owned a 380 ACP.......30 years or so.

I have owned some nice ones--A Mauser HSc, a Walther PPK/S, SIG-Sauer P-230, a Colt Government Model, and a Beretta 84F/S. I grabbed an East German Makarov not long after The Wall Came Down, and the 380s were gone within a year's time. They were easy to sell--the 380 was authorized for plain-clothes/off-duty venues by my shop in 1987, and remains so today.

The 380 has a flaw for my uses of the small pistols......the 32 ACP models of these pistols shoot more accurately by accident than the 380 can on purpose. I didn't use the 380 as felon repellent--it was a sport gun for punching paper, cartwheeling cans, and thwacking small varmints. The 32 ACP pistols leave their 380 counterparts in the dust in this respect.......so much so, that Walther offers its mondo-accurate GSP-C pistol in 32 ACP.

As above, I had some nice 380s over the years. Best one? The Colt Government Model. Locked breech, decent sights, and the most accurate 380 I've ever fired. This isn't a fair standard, and I know it--the 380 is meant for alleyway exchanges of finality at bad-breath to 7 yard distances. But my assessment remains constant--insufficient accuracy for sport usage, and insufficient oomph for stopping goblins. The 380 comes from a day in which fleeing suspected felons were fair game, and it's a decent marking pellet if you can place one (or several) given its casual accuracy. In the modern scheme of things--with bad guys stoked with racing fuels and anaesthetics AND invariably in our face--the 380 ACP falls short. It's kinda like going after yellowtail with a 5-weight fly rod......a bit too sporting for my tastes.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
.the 32 ACP models of these pistols shoot more accurately by accident than the 380 can on purpose.
I can't say I knew this until a few years ago but I must agree whole heartedly that the 32ACP tends to outshine the 380 Auto in that regard.

I’ve seen some very accurate pistols chambered in 380 Auto, but I have to agree that they were likely outliers in that club.

The historical evidence of the origin of the 380 Auto is pretty convincing that the cartridge was created to squeeze the maximum performance out of a simple blowback action.

I think it’s also relevant that the semi-rimmed casing had been abandoned by the time the 380 Auto was introduced. The 45 ACP pre-dates the 380 Auto by a few years and the 45 ACP utilizes a rimless case. By the time the 380 Auto was introduced, the semi-rimmed form had clearly been abandoned. Browning wasn’t attempting to enlarge the 32 ACP into the 380 Auto, he was attempting to reduce the 9mm Luger or 38 Auto down to something that would work in a simple blowback pistol.
 
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300BLK

Well-Known Member
I had an Astra Constable 30+ years ago and I thought it pretty accurate. Recoil seemed pretty snappy for what I regarded a mouse gun.
 

PGPKY2014

Active Member
Just wondering if anyone has any dealings with a Grand Power Roxor. A few years ago I read an article about it & watched a video. Since then Have always wanted one, but still have not even seen one.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Your citation is the first I have heard of the Roxor. It's a good-looking pistol, reminiscent of the Sig-Sauer P-220/225 series pistols. Those relief cuts in the slide are an interesting look. After Google-fu I saw that it has a 4-3/4" barrel (124 mm), weighs 885 grams (31 oz.), and has adjustable Elliason-type rear sight and red insert front sight. It was designed for the South American sport shooting market where the 9 x 19 is verboten. A blurb on the company's ad says 'Pending ATF approval'. I can't find magazine capacity info online.

The company shows a number of pistols in an array of calibers. They have a USA office in Sarasota, FL and a phone number that I didn't try. 4-3/4" barrel and 31 oz. is pretty much a full-size pistol along the lines of a SIG P-220. FWIW.
 

PGPKY2014

Active Member
It is my understanding that it was produced for countries that prohibit military calibers for their citizens. It had 9mm bir brother(?)for other countries.Ido not what that one was called, have never saw it in real life either. I don't remember ever seeing anyone leaving a bad review on any of their other pistols.
 

ChestnutLouie

Active Member
What have YOU used for 380 auto? Lee 356-102 or Lee 365-TL356-95 or NOE TL358-100-RF. For my Ruger LCP max and Security 380 pistols.
My preference would be the Lee 356-102 but for some crazy reason it's only available in a two cavity mold.
 
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Rick H

Well-Known Member
What have YOU used for 380 auto?
I have used the NOE 94 gr. RN, The Lee 356-102, and the Lee 95gr RF in my OMC Backup 380 and my brothers Taurus 738(?) 380. My favorite is the Lee 95 RF but it can be tricky to get reliable feeding in the Taurus. I use the RF in my gun and the NOE 94gr in my brothers. I have had good luck with BLL and also powder coating the 95 RF.
All of them in front of enough 231 to get me 900 fps from the short barreled guns.
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Just never could warm up to the .380
I was never enamored with it but for a long time it was the most powerful cartridge you could get in a SMALL, simple blowback, DA pistol. So, if your criteria was: a small, highly concealable, DA pistol (as opposed to a small revolver) – a pocket pistol chambered in 380 Auto was about the only game in town.

Times have changed and small DA pistols chambered in 9mm Luger, and other more powerful cartridges are now available.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I like the Lee 105 swc bullet in mine. But I have to run them at 0.358"+ to get the gun to shoot right. Also the MP 93gr HP run large.