The Pros and Cons of mould coatings

beagle

Active Member
THis will get some discussion. I can hear it now, I don't want to put black stuff on my nice new, shiny custom aluminum mould. I want it to look purty.
Was much the same way myselt until I was taught different by an "in the know " old timer. Felix Robbins to be exact.
I'm basically an iron mould man. I've owned NEI aluminum moulds, some Lee aluminum moulds, a few brass moulds and even a couple of old bronze Yankee moulds. I'd rather pay extra for a meehanite mould over aluminum and have put my money where my mouth is.
Back to coatings. There are many out there. I have used two different ones. Graphite based and spray moly. Both work equally well but moly tends to outlast graphite based by far. Both will discolor a nice, shiny aluminum mould. I would much rather have a discolored mould than one that don't cast well.
I'll talk basically moly here. Procedures apply between the two.
Why do we coat moulds? To make 'em cast better obviously.
I was once skeptical about coating unti Felix took me under his wing and educated me. Had a shooting partner named Petey that was a custom jeweller. We got into this together on the coating. Both of us had the desire and he had tools to enhance our studies namely high magnification viewing devices.
Mould blocks when cut are full of very minute flaws. Cutting is not the smooth process that we envision when looking at it with the naked eye. It's cutting, tearing and gouging and to be truthfull, leaves holes, gaps and cavities in the cavity of your mould. Aluminum is especially bad. When you cast, these places fill with lead and aggravate the process of the cast bullet releasing from the cavity.
If you doubt me, take a 10X or more powerful magnifier under a good light and look.
The only solution is to fill these holes, gaps and crevices. Mould lube is the solution; black stains or not.
Moly is easy to work with as is graphite. Both messy.
Heat the mould to casting temperature. Let cool until you can spay and it dries instantly. Do cavities about three times with a few minutes dry time between. Do top of mould about three times and underside of sprue plate about 3 times. This will eliminate smearing if you open sprue plate too soon. Set mould aside and let dry for several hours.
The holes are now filled. Take an exacto knife and some soft pine splinters and a good light. First take the exacto knife and clean out mould vent lines or you will have venting problems. Expect as cast diameter to be a bit bigger after this procedure. Won't hurt to get spray on mould faces. Next sharpen pine splinters and carfully burnish the inside of the cavities until all excess moly has been removed. Cavities will be burnished black and shiny. Repeat this operation later paying careful attention to the bands and corners.
Fire up the pot and give it a try. If you've done the procedure right, the mould will drop bullets like shelling peas.
Notice I said do all surfaces of the mould. This is on iron moulds. Only cavities and sprue plates on aluminum moulds.
On iron moulds, this prevents surface rust on outside of moulds and I normally give a couple of squirts outside after I shut down pot while mould is hot.
This is the procedure that Felix recommended step by step on balky moulds and it works from my experiences. If you don't mind a few black stains it will make your casting chores considerably easier./beagle
 

JonB

Halcyon member
SNIP>>>
Next sharpen pine splinters and carfully burnish the inside of the cavities until all excess moly has been removed. Cavities will be burnished black and shiny. Repeat this operation later paying careful attention to the bands and corners.
/beagle
I need help picturing exactly what you are doing here. Because, when I think splinter, I think something tiny enough to pick out with tweezers. Now burnish? I imagine spinning a wooden dowel with a drill and pushing that against the coated metal surfaces, causing friction/heat, OR are you lighting the splinter on fire, and using it like a match?

Also, do you have specific product names for 'Moly' and 'Graphite'
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I think he means take a small bit of pine, maybe like 1/8” diameter and 4-6” long and use it to rub, or burnish, the cavities. Would take a few minute per cavity to get it really well.
Burnishes the moly into those pores and gouges while removing the excess from the rest of the surface.
Kinda like scraping a blade over a pothole filled road to leave gravel in the holes but not all over the surface.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
O goody... were off to potholes ! Ya'll need to come down here !
But burnishing does make old scratch metal take on a nice slick surface. Well new surfaces also..
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I sure like a clean well kept mold. But aside from that. I have never had a mold that didn't have other problems NOT drop properly with proper heat.
Making need for or use if any additive moot.

CW
 

MW65

Wetside, Oregon
My most stubborn moulds get their teeth brushed, and smoked by kitchen matches.

MoS2 tends to act like mica, and have that slip layer where it will be removed easily from itself, but not on the base metal of a mould. Interesting, but too much for me.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Yeah I’m a bit lazy when it comes to fussy work. Most of my molds cast pretty good, and I have sold off some problematic molds. But there are a few problem molds I have that I would like to improve, and this process might do the trick.
But winter project. Oh yeah, it’s winter. Well maybe next winter.
 

beagle

Active Member
Don't recall the brand name. We purchased from McMaster - Carr locally. I'm out and don't have the can. It's spray moly.

Yes, any soft wood and I call splinters maybe 2-3" long. Sharpen enough to get into small corners and crevices to remove the excess moly.

Properly done, it produces a nice shiny burnished surface which drops the bullets easily./beagle
 

PGPKY2014

Active Member
Interesting topic, I belong ,I guess to the Ido not clean my moulds until I see(?) have an issue with bullets not casting to my satisifaction. A very close friend & shooting buddy is opposite. HE likes clean & shiny. We have used each others bullet for years with no problems. I will say that when he borrows a mould it comes home a lot cleaner than when it left, but thats ok. he has never complained when he gets his back a little dirty.
 

Elpatoloco

Active Member
When I forst started casting I used some kind of Mold release. Magic black fairy dust in an aerosol can. I smoked a few molds after.

I use nothing on any moulds anymore. If it gives too much trouble, I send it packing.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Don't recall the brand name. We purchased from McMaster - Carr locally. I'm out and don't have the can. It's spray moly.

Yes, any soft wood and I call splinters maybe 2-3" long. Sharpen enough to get into small corners and crevices to remove the excess moly.

Properly done, it produces a nice shiny burnished surface which drops the bullets easily./beagle
That's for the answers.
I've always said I prefer clean uncoated molds. When I have run into a mold with sticky cavities, sometimes I just flip them and sometimes I try the bullet spinning technique with polishing/rubbing compound. Currently, I have a Lyman 358156 that is troublesome. I tried a couple rounds of the bullet spinning and it helped a little, but is still troublesome. then I listed it for sale...no takers. If I happen onto some Graphite or moly spray, maybe I give it a try.
 

Gary

SE Kansas
Aught to be another category of competition shooting, say PRECISION CAST BULLET TARGET SHOOTING.:D
 

sundog

Active Member
Spray graphite, in particular, Dropout - I've been using it for years with completer satisfaction. Now, before you nay sayers start in on me, hear me out. If you do not like the stuff, do not use it. For me, the stuff works.

Start with clean mold. Spray a cotton swab tip and shake off excess liquid carrier but leave it wet. Swab a cavity. Repeat all cavities on that mold half. Then use the dry end to 'burnish' the coating. Repeat on other mold half. Use all the swabs needed to complete a neat job. Do not spray the mold.

Use only on iron molds. Other type molds get a light wood match or butane smoke when needed.

I'll guarantee there is no measurable change in dropped diameters.

I did this with a NEW RCBS mold recently, got the pot up to temp, preheated the mold, made a couple sample casts, and voila! Cast some more the next day and later the next week with no additional cleaning or coating. It's just like the Energizer Bunny - keeps going and going.

It will eventually need a little cleaning and recoating, but each mold is its own entity.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
we got some spray moly in at work and to test it we put it on some bolts about 1" in diameter.
these bolts held big clamps in place which were then put under 10-12K of pressure and had a very viscous fluid pumped through them.
of course there is a lot of wiggling and jiggling and vibrations to the process.
i'm glad to this day i only tested it on ONE bolt on the two clamps.
the vibrations started backing the nuts off the bolts on both sides.
probably gonna be a bad day for someone when 10-K through a 8" pipe is full of gel and sand weighing around 12 pounds per gallon is shooting everywhere at 600 plus gallons a minute.

on the plus side you could spin the nuts off by hand after beating them on with a hammer and wrench.
 

shuz

Active Member
I have used the graphite based mould release occasionally when I have a mould that doesn't drop bullets easily. I spray the whole mould.Sometimes it works and sometimes it does.doesn't. I will try Sundog's method next time.
One method I have found that works for me is to take a typewriter eraser that is on the end of a pencil type device and burnish the edges of the cavities with it. Those type erasers went the way of the dodo bird, but I still have one that I guard so well that I can't find it most times!
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I'm not sure where it is, or why I bought it, but I have a soapstone marker ...somewhere, LOL. I think there are spare soapstones to go with it, which I kind of think that's why I bought the marker?
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Had a wild *** ME with a can of moly spray, sprayed the asphalt floor tiles with it. Several slipped just walking on it. We found the can and tossed it in the circular file for him. Several were ready to toss him in the can too. Would have been an interesting work injury case though.
 

Monochrome

Active Member
IF i understand the basic idea, apply a thin layer of moly lube to the cavities and use a tooth pick or q tip sized piece of soft wood to burnish/puch it into the surface flaws of the cavities.

Last night, or this morning depending on how you do things. I ran across a youtube video where a guy was preparring a LEE mold for usage, he apparently does this for EVERY casting session.

His process was to warm the mold up either laying on the melting pot or just dipping it into the melted lead. Then he would cout the entire surface with a mixture of POWDERED CHALK in a squeeze bottle for carpenters chalk lines and "methyl hydrate". Used a q-tip soaked in it to coat the entire aluminum surface inside and out. Then shake it, and close it, and start casting.