The weight of a bullet bullet.. part two

[castmiester]

I have a 240 mould and they cast at 228 or so...... I use a 13 BHN alloy. The .358 casts run 9 but the 44 runs 13. I have ingots from assorted WW's, never checked them with my Lee tester though. Fill out is pretty close to full, but not quite. But 12 grains is substantially under to me.

Would adding pure lead raise it up some ?

 

[Rick]

Sure it would, how much depends on the percentage Sb and/or Sn already in the alloy. Lead after all is far heavier than Sb or Sn.

 

[castmiester]

looking at fishing weights. Probably as pure as I could get without buy it outight on like Rotometals. I want to drop the BHN down anyway.

 

[BudHyett]

First thing I'd do is shoot a sample test. If they shoot well without leading, keep shooting. If they don't shoot well with leading, then soften them.

In my experience, twelve grains lighter on a 240 grain bullet indicates nearly Linotype alloy.

 

[castmiester]

Lyman says 22 BHN for Lino... IDK. The science seems hard to get a hold of.

But yeah test fire.. sure. I went with 429244 mould for a heavier bullet at 250.. and that one casts 240ish. The 429421 240 is 228ish

 

[Ian]

It's 5% underweight, is that a lot? If they spec it with Lino it's probably more like 10% underweight, technically, since Lino is a lot lighter than the alloy you're using now. Lyman moulds are notoriously out of spec due to worn cherries.....it probably casts a nominal .428" also, might check that if you haven't already.

I have found a lot of zinc in lead alloy fishing weights, many are PURE zinc due to local regulations or fear of/preparation for suspected future regulations. Used roof jacks, shower pan liners, and roof flashing can be good sources of soft lead. It isn't pure, but it is typically close enough (especially on older rooves) that it can be considered so for bullet casting purposes.

 

[fiver]

lino is 12% antimony and makes 18 or 22 bhn. depending on who is measuring.
lyman no-2 is 5% and makes 15-16
terracorp magnum is 6% and makes 15-16
ww's are about 3% and are 11-12

look how much you'd have to cut down that 3% to make a difference...
half pure would put you 9-10.
that's a lot of bags of sinkers.

 

[castmiester]

It's 5% underweight, is that a lot? If they spec it with Lino it's probably more like 10% underweight, technically, since Lino is a lot lighter than the alloy you're using now. Lyman moulds are notoriously out of spec due to worn cherries.....it probably casts a nominal .428" also, might check that if you haven't already.

I have found a lot of zinc in lead alloy fishing weights, many are PURE zinc due to local regulations or fear of/preparation for suspected future regulations. Used roof jacks, shower pan liners, and roof flashing can be good sources of soft lead. It isn't pure, but it is typically close enough (especially on older rooves) that it can be considered so for bullet casting purposes.

Both moulds, 428421 and the 244 cast .432. l didn’t notice the 244 (250grain) being any longer than the 421 (240 grain), ok, so Ideal didn’t care about a worn cherry. I bought the 244 for more weight for black bear. If l just add a tad of lead to drop down to a Kieth alloy at 11BHN (16:1) l should be good.

As far as fishing weights being pure zinc, l had pure zinc WW’s mixed in with ones l use to cast, and they took alot more time to melt. These sinkers melt quick and are super soft. I haven’t checked them but considering how fast they melt, l’m pretty sure they are really close to pure lead. Test one today and let you know.

 

[castmiester]

lino is 12% antimony and makes 18 or 22 bhn. depending on who is measuring.
lyman no-2 is 5% and makes 15-16
terracorp magnum is 6% and makes 15-16
ww's are about 3% and are 11-12

look how much you'd have to cut down that 3% to make a difference...
half pure would put you 9-10.
that's a lot of bags of sinkers.

I’m at 13.5 BHN

 

[JBinMN]

Here is a chart that might help out. ( It may be one that fiver was referencing to try to help ya out)
I may have another to also help ya out but it is taking me a while to locate it. It describes the weight gain/loss changes depending on what alloy you are using when casting.
I will post it when I find it.

 

[JBinMN]

I found it. I hope it uploads. IF not I will provide a link to where it has been stored. Charlie , who has the chart in his online Imgur files/pics passed away a short time back, so I do not know how long the pic/chart will be up , so if someone wants to have this chart, they should download it.

Here is the link to Charlies Imgur for the chart:

https://imgur.com/oDUFZOf

 

[JBinMN]

The chart above gives some idea of how the weights change depending on alloy when using the same mold, and even after sizing.

Even if one doesn't have the exact mold or sizing die mentioned, one can extrapolate a bit to figure out what ones does have & uses will do depending on the type of alloy.

The chart does show that the "harder the BHN of the alloy, the less weight" example.

Hope these posts will be helpful in some way to folks.

I will make one suggestion to the OP.

Cast some pure lead ( or as close to it) and measure those bullets to set a "benchmark" for what you are looking for from those molds.

Already knowing what ya do about your 13.5 bhn results.

Then figuring out & knowing the difference between them in weight, compare to the chart, as well as even without the chart & using those weight numbers to average out what weight is acceptable to you & make "that" alloy by combining in the amounts you have figured.

Like making 10-1 Alloy with lead & tin, you can then do the same with your combination.

Maybe it will be 3 pounds lead(<what ever is your benchmark) to 7 pounds of your 13.5 alloy to make 10 pounds of the new alloy that meets your requirements, & so on.

Keep trying in small batches if ya like, just keep track of the ratio of "Bemchmark alloy" to your current 13.5 alloy, to use later for larger amounts.

OK enough typing for me for a while.

G'Luck~!

 

[JBinMN]

I forgot...
Here are a couple of links to an outstanding site about casting & other such info that would be useful if one did not know of them:
Regarding this topic-

http://lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

And-

Is Your Cast Bullet Alloy Weak Enough? Alloy's, pressure & terminal ballistic performance in fluids

From the pages of The IHMSA News, Shooting sports, hand gun, ammo, cartridges, xp 100, reloading, firearm, cast bullet, bullet casting and more information articles

lasc.us

The charts on those pages at the links above will be helpful I would think.


Main site index- http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm

 

[fiver]

that chart is directly out of the Lyman number-3 cast bullet manual err handbook.

 

[JBinMN]

that chart is directly out of the Lyman number-3 cast bullet manual err handbook.

Sure could be.... I have more than one manual /handbook.
Good charts. Regardless of the source.
( posted a few in the last few comments/posts. All are worth knowing about, IMO. )

I take NO credit.
Just trying to help out.
Between like minded folks anyway.

https://ia800909.us.archive.org/14/items/LymanCastBulletHandbook3rdEdition1980Ocr/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20ocr.pdf

Or, another:

https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

Just trying to share & help folks.

You know.

P.S. - Those who don't have them, ought to download them.
They won't be around forever.

Helps to read them as well. When/If ya get the time. Hahaha

 

[fiver]

just pointing out it's origins...[shrug]
some of us old guys still prefer paper.

 

[JBinMN]

just pointing out it's origins...[shrug]
some of us old guys still prefer paper.

This old guy does. I just try to share what I know of when I find it elsewhere.

For those who don't have the "hard copy" of things.

I am all about sharing what folks can.
There was no internet when I started & there may come a time when there is no internet again.
( Yeah, I think there might come that time... Or , if nothing else, access is limited cuz the B-tards like to control info it seems now a days...)

Best to have a Hard copy/ IN hand, but not everyone can do that.

So, until then, to me, sharing where ya can find info & if ya can/want, to print it out for yourself is a Good thing.

YMMV, of course.

I'd rather "Have, than Not Need".

 

[castmiester]

It's 5% underweight, is that a lot? If they spec it with Lino it's probably more like 10% underweight, technically, since Lino is a lot lighter than the alloy you're using now. Lyman moulds are notoriously out of spec due to worn cherries.....it probably casts a nominal .428" also, might check that if you haven't already.

I have found a lot of zinc in lead alloy fishing weights, many are PURE zinc due to local regulations or fear of/preparation for suspected future regulations. Used roof jacks, shower pan liners, and roof flashing can be good sources of soft lead. It isn't pure, but it is typically close enough (especially on older rooves) that it can be considered so for bullet casting purposes.

IDK what the regs are where you live but in my state we have pure lead fishing weights. I just melted 13 pounds of pure lead into a mini muffin pan. I'm guessing they are about ~1/2 pound. You got a guesstimate of how much to add to WW alloy to soften up from 13 to say 11 ?

 

[Rick]

Unless you have some very old WW's, air cooled they will be right at 11-12 BHN. I add 2% Sn to my weights, they have consistently measured 11-12 BHN for at least the last 30 years. Current weights will run no more than 2% Sb. Back in the 70's, possibly into the 80's WW contained more SB than weights since then. The Sb is an excellent way for the mfg. to strengthen the alloy and back then it was cheap to do it that way.

Have you taken Ian's advice to cast, load and shoot some of your WW? You should, you just might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[castmiester]

Unless you have some very old WW's, air cooled they will be right at 11-12 BHN. I add 2% Sn to my weights, they have consistently measured 11-12 BHN for at least the last 30 years. Current weights will run no more than 2% Sb. Back in the 70's, possibly into the 80's WW contained more SB than weights since then. The Sb is an excellent way for the mfg. to strengthen the alloy and back then it was cheap to do it that way.

Have you taken Ian's advice to cast, load and shoot some of your WW? You should, you just might be pleasantly surprised.

I'll get there..... eventually. I have some casts ready to size. I wanna try some oversized jacketed first. Been doin some outside stuff for the wife. Plus the range ain't around the corner. Plus it makes me sick how much I had to spend recently for powder from a local shop. I usually get it form cabelas. Everything is so expensive. I hope we can move out of this commie state some day.