Walther PP

[Petrol & Powder]

Years ago, I would pick up a Walther PP offered for sale and if it was chambered in 32 ACP, I would put it back down and look at other guns. That foolishness was driven by my ignorance, in those days I was only interested in 380 Auto in those types of pistols. Back in those days the Walther’s chambered in 32 ACP were almost always less expensive than similar models in 380, which only added to my foolishness. The 32 ACP pistols were a bargain in those days; and I missed it.

Fast forward a few decades and I became ever so slightly wiser. (Considering my starting point, that was about the only direction I could go ). I started seeking Walther PP models chambered in 32 ACP but they were no longer the bargains they once were. Hindsight being nearly perfect, I recalled all the nice, inexpensive Walther’s I walked away from. I chalked that up to a life lesson and went on. Eventually I picked up one the Beretta Model 81 pistols that came into the country. It wasn’t a Walther PP in 32 ACP, but it was a nice 32 ACP pistol and a good value.

Then, almost by accident, I ran across a nice Manurhin made PP. It wasn’t a great deal, but it wasn’t a bad deal either. It was available locally, had a box and spare magazine and looked to be in excellent condition. I decided that opportunity probably wouldn’t come around again, and I purchased it.

The Beretta model 81 has a nicer DA trigger, it holds 4 more rounds and has a better grip. The Walther is thinner and has a hammer dropping safety. The unloaded weights of the two pistols are within about 9.5 grams of each other. This is likely due to the aluminum frame on the Beretta. The barrel lengths and sight radius are nearly identical.

For me, a pistol chambered in 32 ACP is a want, not a need. So, in my universe, those pistols are in the expensive toy category and not the self-defense tool category. It’s interesting that if one were seeking a carry pistol and deciding between these two pistols, they share a lot. The Beretta holds more rounds but is fatter. The Walther gives up a little capacity but is thinner. However, in weight, barrel length, height, trigger system (DA/SA) and sight radius – the forms are similar. The Beretta 81 was introduced 47 years after the Walther PP was first produced but the basic form remained. Maybe Walther got something right back in 1929?

 

[Walks]

I've got one of those PP .32ACP Walthers made By Manurhin. They are Great guns. A West German Police gun, it came with holster, box and 2mags. Bought CHEAP from a Lady that wanted to upgrade to a Glock M19. I got a few spare mags too. It's always functioned perfectly. A Great companion piece to My Savage M1907. And I carried it for a few years with Winchester Silvertips.
A FUN pistol for plinking.

 

[Joshua]

A few things you may or may not want to know about me. I’m cheap. I like $199 dollar guns! I grew up watching James Bond movies. I have really grown to respect the 32 acp. I’m ok owning an old surplus Italian Polizia Beretta Model 81 instead a Walther PP or PPK. I like my Model 81, for now it has scratched 32 the itch.

 

[Outpost75]

I have found the Berettas more durable than the Walthers in high volume use with heavy CIP-Euro service loads. I have owned two former German Police Walther PPs in .32 ACP which were made in the early 1960s. Both failed in the same manner in which the safety lever broke, having become work hardened over a multitude of strikes lowering the hammer during its former polizei service. Replacement used parts from Numrich later failed in the same manner. A factory new OEM replacement part from Walther in Germany costs about $100 with air mail post.

After repair I sold both Walthers. I kept several Berettas each in both 7.65mm and 9mm Corto which have seen and still see frequent and heavy training use and reliably soldier on. The newer Beretta 81 and 84 pistols are solid guns, but the older 1934/35 models are flatter for low profile backup and deep concealment.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

The Walther PP (Manurhin) in the first post suffered the same safety failure that Outpost75 describes. I replaced the safety with the newer style that works with the round cross section firing pin (which also required a new firing pin). The early style firing pins have a square cross section at the rear where the firing pin interacts with the safety. I suspect that engineering change was an effort to address that weakness. I have no doubt the Beretta's are stronger guns than the Walthers.

The older single action Beretta models 1934 & 1935 are clearly stout guns. The newer series 81 Beretta pistols have aluminum frames, but they appear to be well made and the slides are robust. The Walther packs a lot of intricate design in a small space, Beretta seems to be content to use a bit more steel and make the parts larger.

I'll repeat my gratitude again for the information provided by Outpost75. The load recipe that I am using in the PP and Model 81 came directly from Outpost75 and it works beautifully. It’s accurate and functions perfectly.

 

[JustJim]

Outpost75-any thoughts on the VZ 50/VZ 70? That is one of the .32s I shoot well (along with the 1907 Savage), but I've not really shot any of them enough to thoughts on durability with Euro equivalent ammo.

 

[Walks]

I read posts about guns breaking all the time. Models of guns that I have. I've put 10,000 rds+ through My PP with nary a problem. I number all magazines for every auto-loader I have. Watch each one like a Hawk. My guns are clean 90% of the time. My ammo is carefully loaded, cases are clean. I haven't loaded/shot max auto-loads in many years. My Savage 1907 works just as well. Can't say the same thing about Dad's Colt 1903.

What the heck am I doing right/wrong ?

 

[RicinYakima]

Can't say the same thing about Dad's Colt 1903.
What the heck am I doing right/wrong ?

At one time I collected US 32 ACP pistols. My favorite is the Savage, dependable until death. Second is the Remington 51 because it was designed and built as a 380 ACP first, then converted to 32. Stronger in every way. The Colt is an excellent pistol, but I have replaced every spring with a newly manufactured one from the reproduction pistols (CHEAP!) and a new barrel. And two new magazines, a source of trouble with the Colt design. Now expect it to last for another 100 years.

 

[Outpost75]

Outpost75-any thoughts on the VZ 50/VZ 70? That is one of the .32s I shoot well (along with the 1907 Savage), but I've not really shot any of them enough to thoughts on durability with Euro equivalent ammo.

The Vz50 and Vz70 are reliable and accurate enough if you don't put multiple thousands through them. I found spare original mags scarce in the US and Triple-K are spotty in reliability unless tweaked. Spare parts also spotty, so other than brief testing I didn't hold onto them. The Vz27 is a better pistol if you like single-action.

The Savage pistols are accurate and sturdy, the design interesting, but have the same issues regarding difficulty in finding mags and repair parts.

 

[Walks]

I've never found a decent spare mag for My 1907. The Triple K are junk.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I read posts about guns breaking all the time. Models of guns that I have. I've put 10,000 rds+ through My PP with nary a problem. I number all magazines for every auto-loader I have. Watch each one like a Hawk. My guns are clean 90% of the time. My ammo is carefully loaded, cases are clean. I haven't loaded/shot max auto-loads in many years. My Savage 1907 works just as well. Can't say the same thing about Dad's Colt 1903.

What the heck am I doing right/wrong ?

Like you, I clean my guns and keep them in good working order. And like you, I only shoot ammunition that is appropriate for the firearm.

Not all failures are the same. Some are the result of poor maintenance and neglect. Some are the result of abuse. Some are the result of poor design and sometimes time just takes its toll.

SO, you cannot lump all failures into the same basket.

Like you, I do not abuse guns. But I do shoot them. Some failures will occur even under the best of conditions.

I’ve owned several Walther pistols, albeit mostly in 380 Auto and 9mm. I’ve experienced very few failures from Walther’s and I know of similar experiences from others. However, the early style firing pin in the PP and PPK had a square cross section form at the rear. This requires a lot of sharp cuts in the drum of the safety. I suspect this is not an ideal design. It appears Walther recognized this, and they re-designed the firing pin and safety. The second type utilizes a firing pin with a round cross section that seems to be stronger.
I don’t think the first type will absolutely fail but I do think it is slightly more prone to failure.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

At one time I collected US 32 ACP pistols. My favorite is the Savage, dependable until death. Second is the Remington 51 because it was designed and built as a 380 ACP first, then converted to 32. Stronger in every way. The Colt is an excellent pistol, but I have replaced every spring with a newly manufactured one from the reproduction pistols (CHEAP!) and a new barrel. And two new magazines, a source of trouble with the Colt design. Now expect it to last for another 100 years.

I had an original Remington Model 51, neat gun. Mine was in 380 not 32.
I loved that pistol and it was accurate. however, my example would not feed hollow points reliably. At that time in my life, money was tight. I needed a reliable pistol more than I needed an original model 51. It got traded for a SIG P230.
Wish I still had that Remington.

 

[Thumbcocker]

My biggest complaint with my .32's is the brass getting flung into the next county. Here are the 2 most recent additions.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Yeah, those tiny 32 ACP casings are difficult to recover.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Always wanted a PP or PPK. But was a want/for fun/just because, and not a need of any sort. Also cheap. Figured I would never run into one I was willing to pay the $ for. Then, out of nowhere, a buddy who had gotten one cheap (employee discount) wanted some cash for something and offered the PP to me for $300. Felt like I was back in the '80s! I jumped on it!

 

[CZ93X62]

I enjoy my Walther PP in 32 ACP very much. It mostly gets Lyman #311252 at 850 FPS, which is Euro-level ballistics minus about 5%-7%. It doesn't go in harm's way now that the Glock 43 fills that niche, but a well-placed 32 caliber round or three could prompt a ne'er-do-well back into civilized and genteel behavior.

 

[Dimner]

Years ago, I would pick up a Walther PP offered for sale and if it was chambered in 32 ACP, I would put it back down and look at other guns. That foolishness was driven by my ignorance, in those days I was only interested in 380 Auto in those types of pistols. Back in those days the Walther’s chambered in 32 ACP were almost always less expensive than similar models in 380, which only added to my foolishness. The 32 ACP pistols were a bargain in those days; and I missed it.

Fast forward a few decades and I became ever so slightly wiser. (Considering my starting point, that was about the only direction I could go ). I started seeking Walther PP models chambered in 32 ACP but they were no longer the bargains they once were. Hindsight being nearly perfect, I recalled all the nice, inexpensive Walther’s I walked away from. I chalked that up to a life lesson and went on. Eventually I picked up one the Beretta Model 81 pistols that came into the country. It wasn’t a Walther PP in 32 ACP, but it was a nice 32 ACP pistol and a good value.

Then, almost by accident, I ran across a nice Manurhin made PP. It wasn’t a great deal, but it wasn’t a bad deal either. It was available locally, had a box and spare magazine and looked to be in excellent condition. I decided that opportunity probably wouldn’t come around again, and I purchased it.

The Beretta model 81 has a nicer DA trigger, it holds 4 more rounds and has a better grip. The Walther is thinner and has a hammer dropping safety. The unloaded weights of the two pistols are within about 9.5 grams of each other. This is likely due to the aluminum frame on the Beretta. The barrel lengths and sight radius are nearly identical.

For me, a pistol chambered in 32 ACP is a want, not a need. So, in my universe, those pistols are in the expensive toy category and not the self-defense tool category. It’s interesting that if one were seeking a carry pistol and deciding between these two pistols, they share a lot. The Beretta holds more rounds but is fatter. The Walther gives up a little capacity but is thinner. However, in weight, barrel length, height, trigger system (DA/SA) and sight radius – the forms are similar. The Beretta 81 was introduced 47 years after the Walther PP was first produced but the basic form remained. Maybe Walther got something right back in 1929?

View attachment 31366

Where did ya get those grips for the m81? I have two 81's and I would love some wood. Only two pistols I own and they are just a joy to shoot.

 

[hporter]

Yeah, those tiny 32 ACP casings are difficult to recover.

May not be practical for everyone, but we found that a pop up tent with a ground cover under it, and a ventilated ground cover to the right and behind hung like tent walls does a good job of catching 99.9% of most semi-auto shell casings. The ventilated sidewalls keeps the wind from destroying the tent when the breeze picks up. In fact we were shooting a .32acp Colt the day I took this photo. Kind of a pain to have to set up - but makes finding your brass easier.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Where did ya get those grips for the m81? I have two 81's and I would love some wood. Only two pistols I own and they are just a joy to shoot.

I believe those are the grips that came with the pistol.

You can buy them directly from Beretta:

84F Wood Grips | Beretta

Beretta 84F Wood Grips are made of genuine Walnut, featuring elegant checkering with Trident and Beretta medallion logos. Comes in set of 2. Grip screws not included.

www.beretta.com

You can also purchase genuine Beretta magazines. YES, I know they are pricey but for a real Beretta factory mag, probably about the going rate; and they are available.

81 81B 81BB 81F 81FS Magazine .32 Auto 12 Round | Beretta

Shop Beretta 81, 81B, 81BB, 81F, 81FS Magazine .320 caliber for an additional 12 rounds . Shoot longer by stocking up on magazines and spending less time reloading!

www.beretta.com

 

[Petrol & Powder]

May not be practical for everyone, but we found that a pop up tent with a ground cover under it, and a ventilated ground cover to the right and behind hung like tent walls does a good job of catching 99.9% of most semi-auto shell casings. The ventilated sidewalls keeps the wind from destroying the tent when the breeze picks up. In fact we were shooting a .32acp Colt the day I took this photo. Kind of a pain to have to set up - but makes finding your brass easier.

View attachment 31390

I will often just put a tarp down when shooting pistols. Doesn't catch 100% but it does catch the bulk of the casings. And collection is easy. You just fold up the tarp with the casings inside.

Of course, an indoor range is the best. All you need there is a broom and dustpan.