Wet Tumbling Case Damage

[hporter]

I find a case looking like this every once in a while when I pull them out of my brass storage containers to load.



This was a 38 S&W that I last shot out of my No.2 Enfield about 7 years ago. I wet tumbled them in plain water with stainless pins, a little car wash/wax and a teaspoon of citric acid.

This was back before I took the wife's old food dehydrator and bought her a new one. Now I stick them in the old food dehydrator and they are toasty hot and completely dry in 30-45 minutes.

Back then, I used to just shake all the water that I could, and leave the cases in the sun to dry. Out of 50 cases that I tumbled, this is the only one that suffered this condition. It was a once fired, from a batch of brand new Starline case.

It is no big deal - it only claims a case or two in every thousand. But I am genuinely curious to what might be the cause?

I've seen brass things with Verdigris on them, but nothing like this.

I thought I might ask the forum if someone might know?

 

[RicinYakima]

That is acid damage to the metal. That one didn't get rinsed AND dried. The blue-greenish is copper oxide and the reddish is zinc oxide.

 

[Ian]

Rinse the cleaned cases in distilled water and a splash of liquid car wax. Sounds like you're skipping the rinse step.

 

[hporter]

Thanks Ric.

I was leaning towards a failure in drying or a defect in that particular case. But missing a spot of sludge of soap and citric acid would make sense as the catalyst.

Ian - I normally rinse all my cases in two changes of clean tap water in the bottom of a bucket after getting all the soap bubbles out in previous rinses. Granted I haven't used distilled water. Heck, I don't even use distilled water in my photo developing chemistry.

And I normally use a 50/50 mix of dawn dish soap and car wash soap (with wax in it) for the tumbling with pins. I hadn't thought of using a liquid wax as a rinse solution. The cases are pretty slick from the carwash after I dry them now. I imagine liquid wax in the rinse would be like pre-lubing the cases for sizing.

Thanks for the information and advice gentlemen.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I use the Lyman Cyclone wet cleaner. start with the barrel 2/3 full of brass. Fill the barrel to the point that the brass is covered or just above the shoulder of the barrel, 1 tablespoon of Armorall car wash and wax and 1/2 teaspoon of lemi-shine. Most times, the pins are not needed. Screw on lid, run checking for drips and set the timer for 3 hours.

When done, set barrel under running water and fill with hot water to overflow until water runs clear. Strain the brass and water in the provided strainer and wire screen. Flush with hot water again and then pour into a rotating media strainer with old socks or other rags and this absorbs the surface water. Then sun dry or dry in a rack over a heat register. I use the same mix regardless if pins are used or not. I set the timer for the same run time, regardless of condition of brass. Worst case, I have some brass that was cleaned in solution only that still has some dark stains. That goes into the next batch of brass cleaned with the pins.

 

[Ian]

Help me understand why you guys are putting car wax/wash in your cleaning cycle.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I use it because it makes a nice cleaning agent. When you remove the lid after tumbling for three hours, there is a rich head of fine bubbles from the soap in the solution. The wax factor in the solution does leave a slightly slick film on the brass cases to protect the brass in storage. Like it leaves a bit of wax finish on the vehicles washed as intended.

I can not say it reduces water spots because I tumble dry the cases to prevent that from occurring.

 

[hporter]

I assume you suggested putting liquid wax in the rinse water for the same reason. To coat and protect the brass.

The cheapest of the cheapest Walmart car wash and wax used in the wash cycle stays on the brass, even through several rinses.

I just tried your liquid wax in the rinse water on some 44-40 brass I shot last month. Just to see if there is any difference.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Help me understand why you guys are putting car wax/wash in your cleaning cycle.

Liking to hear why as well.

I am new to wet tumbling.

I dump in kitchen sink. Add a fresh clean quart of water, slosh and dump then repeat couple times. Then refill clean water and back on tumbler for 10-15. I know distilled is recomended, but I have pretty soft water and dont see spots. Then I Dump, spin and dry. I dry on my furnace chimney pipe



Simple plate speed screwed to make flat surface and them a large pan to hold brass. Just graduated from old cookie sheet to this hog slop pan found at tractor supply for 7$! Couple hours its dry. In summer its a towel on the table on the deck.

I dont at all want anything On the brass esp not sometjing that might be lube inside the necks.

Before the wet, I would tumble after sizing to remove lube. No way Im gonna ADD wax.

CW

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I assume you suggested putting liquid wax in the rinse water for the same reason. To coat and protect the brass.

The cheapest of the cheapest Walmart car wash and wax used in the wash cycle stays on the brass, even through several rinses.

I just tried your liquid wax in the rinse water on some 44-40 brass I shot last month. Just to see if there is any difference.

If that question is directed to me, no. It is already on the brass. No need to add soap and wax all over again.

 

[hporter]

If that question is directed to me

No, in the third post, Ian suggested using liquid car wax and distilled water as a rinse agent.

 

[hporter]

CW,

I shoot my brass with Hornady One Shot case lube before dumping the brass in my case feeder when reloading on my Dillon. I am sure I get lubricant inside the cases every single time, though I do try to be careful.

I assume you are talking about rifle brass, and I am talking about handgun brass. Though to be honest I do process my rifle brass the same way.

I don't shoot competition matches, and I doubt neck tension would be impacted in any meaningful way in the way that I enjoy shooting my rifles. They group well enough to please me. But maybe there is a reason I shouldn't do so. Perhaps I am about to learn why.

I haven't had any issues with getting my brass dry since I started using a food dehydrator. It is fast and efficient. I noticed Lyman even sells a dedicated brass dehydrator now - which I will gladly buy if this thing ever dies. It would be nice to have a square pan, without the hole in the middle to allow brass to fall down in.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

If its working for you my friend, Who am I to rain on that!!

I have found lube is a large issue in accuracy. I have tested this quite a few times, marking a seated bullet with lube and on every occasion that bullet falls outside my grouping. I prefer clean dry necks.

Plinking handgun, no, I dont worry allot either.

CW

 

[hporter]

CW,

I apologize, but I am not familiar with your writings on that. I will have to look them up.

I am always up for learning something new.

Are you speaking strictly about jacketed bullets and lube in the neck, or cast or both? I think that is where I was disconnecting. I shoot mostly cast bullets in rifles, and they always have lube of some sort on them that would then get into the necks. Lube on the bullet and lube in the neck being too much of a good thing?

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yes, Jacketed. Sorry sould have specified and I can see the reason for questioning!!

My cast are powder coated. So in my case, no lube there either.

CW

 

[358156 hp]

I use ArmorAll Wash and Wax car wash with a tiny amount of Lemishine of Citric acid. The brass comes out sparkling, and air dries without water spotting. The wax film left by the ArmorAll has been left on the cases once dried, and seems to protect well from tarnish. Alternatively, the washed cases size much easier in carbide and steel dies (handgun). I'm well satisfied with my results.

 

[Ian]

I dont at all want anything On the brass esp not sometjing that might be lube inside the necks.

Before the wet, I would tumble after sizing to remove lube. No way Im gonna ADD wax.

CW

You just started this wet tumbling thing, correct? Many of us find that unless a VERY SMALL amount of liquid "wax" (whatever it is, polymer, paraffin, in a solvent or emulsion) or lubricate inside out case necks with motor mica or a Nylon brush, that the dead-clean cases tend to really bind on expanding spuds and mandrels. Bottleneck brass gets the mouth twisted on the lube pad to inside/outside lube the necks for sizing but I typically wash the brass after resizing to get all that stuff off. I shot lubed bullets for years out of rifles at all levels and lube gets inside the case neck without causing any issue except those from fairly extreme temperature fluctuations.

The trick with the liquid wax is not to use too much because the real concern is increasing the bolt thrust.

I do find it interesting that the wax stays on the brass when added to the wash solution, I never tried it because it seemed so counter-intuitive. I may try it but will likely delete the Dawn and use a wash/wax formula.

 

[RicinYakima]

Dawn is basically a surfactant, lifts dirt and stuff off the metal surface. It is actually very poor at dissolving grease, but that is why is is good for doing dishes.

 

[Michael]

1/2 -1 TBS (a good squirt ) of Dawn and 1/4 tsp Lemishine in with the SSM. When done after separating out the pins, brass goes in strainer basket where I run water over the cases to wash off the suds, then fill sink with enoungh water to cover cases, pull out basket, let drain, drop back in and give them a stir by hand, repeat a 3 or 4 times, takes 30 seconds at the most. Dump out on bath towel, roll around to dry off the outside, and let sit overnight laying on thier side. Granted humidity here is pretty low. Never had a problem even when shooting black.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

You just started this wet tumbling thing, correct? Many of us find that unless a VERY SMALL amount of liquid "wax" (whatever it is, polymer, paraffin, in a solvent or emulsion) or lubricate inside out case necks with motor mica or a Nylon brush, that the dead-clean cases tend to really bind on expanding spuds and mandrels. Bottleneck brass gets the mouth twisted on the lube pad to inside/outside lube the necks for sizing but I typically wash the brass after resizing to get all that stuff off. I shot lubed bullets for years out of rifles at all levels and lube gets inside the case neck without causing any issue except those from fairly extreme temperature fluctuations.

The trick with the liquid wax is not to use too much because the real concern is increasing the bolt thrust.

I do find it interesting that the wax stays on the brass when added to the wash solution, I never tried it because it seemed so counter-intuitive. I may try it but will likely delete the Dawn and use a wash/wax formula.

Ooh I lube for sizing... KINDA ROOKIE not ta no?? (Started loading 1975/6 Ian) Sure Length so of time doing something wrong... But even the most ignorant learns stuck cases/stretched neck/oal and need to trim shows advantages if lube right quick.
I already mentioned, I used to tumble to remove lube in a previous post.

Also as mentioned, Ill lube cases to size but then tumble to remove it.
Yes, there is a miraid of reasons ya dont want lubed cases fired. I just didnt elaborate, as I know the base here is quite savvy.

I have kept brass clean and shiny for decades with no tarnish while clean and dry.

CW